Glue line on router table - again

[Niki]

Good day

Sometime ago, I posted "Glue line on router table" but, I deleted all the pics after replies about safety issues (the wood was trapped between the fence and the router bit and the probability of kickback was high).

So, one day it was a night, I opened my "drilling" drawer and I found 3 brand new drills like on the first pic (I don't know how they are called).

Amazingly, the shank is 6 mm, so I chucked it in the router and "shaved".

OK, "Safety Police" let's see you "arresting" me now

(Why I have this feeling that Scrit will find something wrong... )

Pics removed due to safety reasons

Regards
niki

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Niki, that's very interesting but Scrit's going to get you on two counts. First there's no guard over the cutter and it's sticking up ready to grab your knuckles. Second, I doubt that bit was intended for the sort of RPMs your router runs.

Now, if it works, that's cool. Just don't apply any siding loading to that bit while it is spinning. It might come off and imbed itself in your thigh. :shock:

 

[Mike.C]

Niki, you have posted a hell of a lot good ideas in the past, so maybe the glue line one had a few safety problems, but don't let this put you off coming up with more good ones in the future.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

So you stuck a 6mm drill bit in your router table...





... then what?

Virgil

 

[Niki]

Thank you Dave

Ah, I knew that something is wrong here

About the guard, it will be very easy to fit one although, as you see on the pic, I'm using tall (high?) push blocks.

I don't think that the speed is a problem because the drill is made of one solid piece of steel without brazing like the router bit or saw blade.

I'm "shaving" about 0.1 (1/10) mm and I think that the side load is not so big.

Regards
niki

 

[Mike.C]

hiltsy,

So you stuck a 6mm drill bit in your router table...





... then what?

didn't you hear the guy "He Shaved" :lol:

Cheers

Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

Interesting idea, but seems a lot of hassle compared to a quick swipe with a plane? Or am I genuinely missing something here?

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I don't understand!

What are you trying to do, Niki?

I take it that you are pushing the wood between the fence and the drill bit from left to right.

Why? Don't you have a thicknesser?

My guess is that the drill bit will snap pretty quickly. It's a drill bit. They are not made to withstand lateral pressure.

You'll have someone's eye out!

Virgil

 

[Niki]

Thank you for your replies

Mike
As you know, sometimes I "fall" with some bed idea (like the Grrriper and the Glue line) but it does not mean that I'll stop.
Thanks for the encouragement.

Hiltsy
You are correct, I don't have thicknesser
I don't see so much difference between 6 mm drill shank and 6 mm router bit shank and I don't understand why it will snap.
I'm removing about 0.1 mm or less on each pass and I think that the side loads are not bigger that when we use it with hand drill. Many times I drill a hole and swing the drill from side to side to enlarge it with much more pressure that removing 0.1 mm on the router table.

ByronBlake
Yes, you are "missing" something, I don't have jointer and I don't know to work with hand plane

Regards
niki

 

[Scrit]

Niki, .....Scrit's going to get you on two counts.

Oh, I think I can do better than that, Dave...... :twisted:

I agree with you on the guarding issue and on the point about the probable inability of the cutter to withstand any side load. My concern is not so much that the "shaving action" will cause side loading, more the fact that putting a cutter away from the fence and then applying what I can only think of as a lash-up to overcome the effect of doing this is really counter-intuitive as you are pushing the work across the router table in the opposite direction to that normally used. Why not just make a conventional split fence and use that instead, or as someone else has pointed out, just take a pass with a jack plane or on the jointer?

About the guard, it will be very easy to fit one although, as you see on the pic, I'm using tall (high?) push blocks

Which is that stupid American commercial type which places your hand beside or above a cutter or blade at the end of a stroke....... That's why they are not accepted for use in factories or training establishments in the UK (or the rest of the EU, for that matter). The whole point of a push stick is that it keeps your hands a reasonable distance away from the blade in both the horizontal and vertical planes.

I don't think that the speed is a problem because the drill is made of one solid piece of steel without brazing like the router bit or saw blade.

The steel used in drill bits is normally hot rolled/pulled to approximate shape then profile ground to size. This means that it has a fairly consistent structure, although it is not shockproof. Router bits, on the other hand, have bodies made from steel which is formulated for its consistent fine grain structure and their strength is derived in part from the drop forging processes used to make them. Because they are rated for use at higher speeds/lateral loadings the steel in them is considerably stronger (actually it is more elastic and less brittle) than the M2 or carbon steel grades used in twist drills. That said I don't think if the bit broke it would be that much of a problem as it is likely to go away from the operator and drop downwards, but I really don't like the idea of using tooling in an inappropriate manner like this.

You asked. I responded :lol:

Scrit

 

[Niki]

Thank you Scrit

Oki-doki, I asked for it...

But I have a few remarks

I'm not pushing the work in the opposite direction but in normal direction (I mean, it's not climb routing).

As I said, the "split fence" method never worked good for me, I don't even know how is "Jack plane" (not to mention my skills with any hand plane) and I don't have a jointer.

The push block problem can be solved easily by designing a push block that rides on the fence so my hand will not be near to the bit, or, using a long push stick that will leave my hand far behind the rotating drill/file (same as for table saw), anyway, the problem exists only with narrow boards when the board is wide, my hand is far from the bit.

HSE Safety Regulations states:
"A push-stick should always be used when making any cut less than 300 mm in length or when feeding the last 300 mm of a longer cut. The leading hand should never be closer than is necessary to the front of the saw blade.
A push stick should always be used to remove the cut piece from between the saw blade and the fence, unless the width of the cut piece exceeds 150 mm".

I will not argue with you about the metallurgics of router or drill bits but, this drill was designed to drill and enlarge holes in wood (like for key holes) using hand held drill by exerting very strong side loads (at least as much as your hands are strong), it's actually a rotating file.
I think, that it was designed to withstand strong side loads without breaking (at least I could never break it and I "pressed on it" very strong.

Best Regards
niki

 

[woodbloke]

Niki - you've come up with all sorts of ingenious ideas in the past which have been great, but for my money, this isn't one of them. Sorry - Rob

 

[Niki]

Thank you for your compliments Rob
There are many jigs and fixture on the Internet and everybody is free to choose whatever he considers as safe operation for him.

If you remember, I posted the "Grrriper" like fixture and deleted all the project after I realized that it's very dangerous. But interestingly, a few days ago, some guy posted the same idea on the Australian WW forum and got more than 25 "Wow's and waw's"...

This morning, I went to the garage and made some things.

On the first pic, you can see how I made an elongated hole in 30mm Oak and I was very violent, just to check if the drill bit is strong enough.

On the rest of the pics, I made a long push block that I can use also for the TS by changing the handle angle. That leaves my hand far behind the bit (about 500mm), and I don't even see a need for a guard with this "remote control" pusher.

For me, this set-up and operation looks very safe (at least safer than driving in Poland)...

Regards
niki

 

[Anonymous]

Why?

I see no point in this and yopu are going to great lengths to avoid injury and kickback.

There are many safer and easier ways of achieving the same affect

 

[ByronBlack]

Niki

I can only agree with everyone here, you going to some extraordinary lengths just to joint an edge.

You have a tablsaw yes? If so, invest in a glue-line blade and use that, otherwise get a cheap handplane and some sandpaper, and using this forum as a resource learn how to use it, it will be more accurate, cheaper and easier to use than a convuleted router setup.

 

[LyNx]

maybe he wants to go the long way round on things. Maybe it's the finding new ways to achieve things thats the end goal.

 

[promhandicam]

Hi Niki. How is it using the long push stick? Looking at it I would have thought that you would have less control over the piece of wood that you are shaving than with a shorter one. If you are intent on using this method, perhaps you could try grinding the tip off of the rotary file so that it can be adjusted so that it only sticks out a short distance. However as others have said I would have thought that using a hand plane would be by far the quickest and safest solution.

Following on from what Byron said, I have just given away an electric planer as now I have learnt (thanks in part to this forum) how to use properly a hand plane I'd much rather use this - less noise, less dust, less danger.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[andycktm]

Hi Niki ,i enjoy your posts immensely and from your photo's i see a lot of skill/quality in your work and also much use of your initiative.
But your dealing with many people who think it dangerous to even look at a chainsaw let alone use one!
And also many people who just come on here to put people"right"(even if their not sure themselves!)
But that's irrelevant just make sure you keep posting 'em.
Andy.

 

[Niki]

Ok guys

As the song says, "Another one hit the dust" . So, this idea is canceled and I'll continue to look for different way to achieve it safely and even if it means to make a Power Feeder .

Thanks you all for your replies and opinions

And keep the Sanding Paper ready, I have a few more ideas for using it, coming soon...

Best Regards
niki

 

[ByronBlack]

Hi Niki ,i enjoy your posts immensely and from your photo's i see a lot of skill/quality in your work and also much use of your initiative.
But your dealing with many people who think it dangerous to even look at a chainsaw let alone use one!
And also many people who just come on here to put people"right"(even if their not sure themselves!)
But that's irrelevant just make sure you keep posting 'em.
Andy.

Thats a very shortsighted and judgmental view. There's nothing wrong with advising someone in a direction that is safer, cheaper and ultimately easier. You'll find many positive appraisals on this forum of many peoples inventions/jigs etc. including those from Nikki.

If you feel solid and safe advice is irrelevant, then thats your lookout, but don't slag people off because of your agenda.

Nikki - as another idea for you to get a good jointed edge, have you thought about making a shooting board and using a long flat piece of MDF with sandpaper glued to it- this then gets rubbed along the edge of the piece in a similar fashion to how a plane would work, only with no hassle of sharpening/setting up a plane if thats a route that you don't want to go down.