Garden Gate - design sense check please

[NDRiley]

Evening All,

I've been asked to make a pair of garden gates broadly like the design attached below. Before proceeding I would welcome any thoughts on the following points:

1: They will be made of air dried english oak (apart from the top branch wood panels which will be yew). I'm planning to use 100mmx75mm sections for the posts and rails. Is that likley to be big enough (each gate is 1400mm high x 750mm wide)?
2: The main joints will be mortise and tenon. I'm planning to use pegged tenons rather than wedged through tenons. Any thoughts?
3: My go to glue for most applications is Titebond 3. Any reason to use something different here?
4: I'm struggling to find a hinge solution that will work well with the curved top and middle rails. Short (c.200mm) strap / T hinges would just about fit but would be pretty inelegant. Are there any better solutions out there that I'm not aware of?

Many thanks

 

[TheTiddles]

Nice design. I’d go for pintel and gudgeon hinges (the ones with bolt eyes) with the nuts buried inside the stiles so you don’t really see the hinge at all other than the pintle and gudgeon bit, though you’d lose the nice adjustment feature of that, I think that feature is more for crude farm gates

Aidan

 

[toolsntat]

There are curved hook & band hinges.

https://www.intertoolsonline.co.uk/...-hinges/300mm-no-129-l-curved-rail-hinge-sets
Cheers Andy

 

[deema]

I can’t see a reason why the sections you’ve chosen won’t be sufficient, I make doors of similar size out of oak that’s 100x55. Aesthetics is in the eye of the beholder, and I’m not good with that.
For external gates I would wedge and peg. No reason not to.
Check how dry the stuff is, Tritebond does not like high moisture content. Also I find Tritebond 3 to leave a dark stain.
For high class work find a back smith to make you a couple of custom gate straps. Straps that fit the contour of the gate, draw on the design.

 

[RobinBHM]

I would make the bottom rail wider myself

I'm not sure how you are doing the bottom rail to take boarding - ideally it wants a rebate with chamfer to bottom and boarding to finish about 5mm under flush.

I would leave the timber outside, under cover for 4 weeks before starting.

I gave up making gates as they always swell up too much - much better if you can get the timber to take on moisture before manufacture

 

[Dee J]

Looks really good, but I'd be a bit concerned with the tops of the stiles being trimmed off so tight to the line of the top rails. Water sitting on the tops of the stiles will quickly get trough the short end grain section and into the motrice limiting the life of that join. More rustic gates tend to leave the stile taller to give a bit of resistance. A decorative capping could work too.

 

[NDRiley]

Nice design. I’d go for pintel and gudgeon hinges (the ones with bolt eyes) with the nuts buried inside the stiles so you don’t really see the hinge at all other than the pintle and gudgeon bit, though you’d lose the nice adjustment feature of that, I think that feature is more for crude farm gates

Aidan

Thanks for that Aidan. I wasn’t aware of that type of hinge. Looks like that could be a very neat solution.

 

[NDRiley]

There are curved hook & band hinges.

https://www.intertoolsonline.co.uk/...-hinges/300mm-no-129-l-curved-rail-hinge-sets
Cheers Andy

Thanks Andy, that’s really helpful.

 

[NDRiley]

I would make the bottom rail wider myself

I'm not sure how you are doing the bottom rail to take boarding - ideally it wants a rebate with chamfer to bottom and boarding to finish about 5mm under flush.

I would leave the timber outside, under cover for 4 weeks before starting.

I gave up making gates as they always swell up too much - much better if you can get the timber to take on moisture before manufacture

Thanks Robin. Good idea re bottom rail - I will definitely do that. Thanks also for the tips on the seasoning and boarding.

 

[NDRiley]

Looks really good, but I'd be a bit concerned with the tops of the stiles being trimmed off so tight to the line of the top rails. Water sitting on the tops of the stiles will quickly get trough the short end grain section and into the motrice limiting the life of that join. More rustic gates tend to leave the stile taller to give a bit of resistance. A decorative capping could work too.

Ah, thanks - I hadn’t thought of that! Glad I asked. Will tweak the design.

 

[RobinBHM]

Thanks Robin. Good idea re bottom rail - I will definitely do that. Thanks also for the tips on the seasoning and boarding.

I've made a fair few gates...and the biggest issue has always been kiln dried timber going from a dry workshop out into the good old damp English weather.

Conditioning the boards first ( in their nominal finished section) in my opinion the single most important thing on gate manufacture

 

[Doug71]

I've made a fair few gates...and the biggest issue has always been kiln dried timber going from a dry workshop out into the good old damp English weather.

Conditioning the boards first ( in their nominal finished section) in my opinion the single most important thing on gate manufacture

I made a couple of Sapele gates for a customer around October time. Both gates were about 1m wide, just a ledged and braced design. I left a 2mm gap between all the boards and everything was properly painted including the tongues and grooves. I went back last week to look at another job and was surprised to see not just that the gap had closed up between the boards but you could see at the ends of the ledges that the outside boards had both been pushed outwards by about 4mm. The gates aren't really exposed either as one is in an alleyway and one sits under a brick arch.

Next time I will do as Robin suggests and let the wood acclimatise outside for a while.

 

[NDRiley]

Looks really good, but I'd be a bit concerned with the tops of the stiles being trimmed off so tight to the line of the top rails. Water sitting on the tops of the stiles will quickly get trough the short end grain section and into the motrice limiting the life of that join. More rustic gates tend to leave the stile taller to give a bit of resistance. A decorative capping could work too.

Hi Dee J, what would you think about dealing with the problem you identify by the extending the top rail the full width of the gate (other than the difficulty of putting a curved shoulder on the tenon on the top of the stile)?

 

[Dee J]

Hi Dee J, what would you think about dealing with the problem you identify by the extending the top rail the full width of the gate (other than the difficulty of putting a curved shoulder on the tenon on the top of the stile)?

Seems a plausible, yet not commonly seen solution to this problem.

 

[OrangeFive]

I do glued, morticed, tenoned wedged and draw dowelled. As mentioned above even this does not stop movement unfortunately.

 

[NDRiley]

I do glued, morticed, tenoned wedged and draw dowelled. As mentioned above even this does not stop movement unfortunately.

I was thinking or wedging as well as pinning but thought there might be an issue with decay setting in on the exposed end of the through tenon in this layout. Would be interested to know if you have had any issues like that?

 

[NDRiley]

I've made a fair few gates...and the biggest issue has always been kiln dried timber going from a dry workshop out into the good old damp English weather.

Conditioning the boards first ( in their nominal finished section) in my opinion the single most important thing on gate manufacture

Thanks Robin. I will try to source the timber well in advance of manufacture and leave it outside.