Furlough

[doctor Bob]

I have 5 staff on furlough. They are at home, zero work. I will start to bring them back very soon.

I really hope the companies taking the mickey out of the scheme get done.
I know of one company which furloughed staff. The directors have set up another business using the same staff paid a bit of cash on top of their furlough wage. So carry on as normal with minimal wage outlay.
Some suppliers have reps furloughed but they still take phone calls and orders.
Some "just popping in to do a little bit, not proper work"................
One delivery driver told me he had just delivered to a family firm where all the staff were telling him they were furlough but working.

Boils my wee, I hope it's chased up for years and proper punishments handed down.

 

[MikeG.]

I have 5 staff on furlough.........I will start to bring them back very soon..........

So very pleased to hear this, Bob.

 

[doctor Bob]

I have 5 staff on furlough.........I will start to bring them back very soon..........

So very pleased to hear this, Bob.

Thanks Mike, we have set up precautions and PPE. I just think we need to be brave and push on rather than mothballing and leaking money.
He who dares, Rodders.................

 

[DBT85]

Some will get caught but there are so many claiming, me included, lots will slip through.

With no live sport to broadcast I have no work at all. Most who do what I do pay themselves maybe 8k a year PAYE and claim the rest as dividends to pay as little tax as possible.

Biting them on the backside now!

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The government has spent billions trying to keep businesses and individuals afloat so they can respond to an upturn when lockdown is relaxed. Not just furlough payments, but loans, business rates relief, etc.

I am sure the government expected a certain amount of fraud - but have no idea whether it was 5% or 50% (probably somewhere between the two).

I totally support the proposition that offenders should be pursued relentlessly - it is the taxpayer who will have to pick up the costs. Personally I have no problem supporting those who have a genuine need for help, but no desire to subsidise those who would seek to abuse the system.

Incidentally one of the things Rishi Sunak announced in an early TV briefing was an intent to even up the tax treatment of the self employed and those on PAYE. Makes sense to me - there are many good reasons why one may choose to be self-employed but tax avoidance should not be one of them.

 

[Rorschach]

Most who do what I do pay themselves maybe 8k a year PAYE and claim the rest as dividends to pay as little tax as possible.

Biting them on the backside now!

That may we ll be true, but those of us who have had to pay full taxes all along are feeling a bit of schadenfreude.

 

[Rorschach]

I really hope the companies taking the mickey out of the scheme get done.
I know of one company which furloughed staff. The directors have set up another business using the same staff paid a bit of cash on top of their furlough wage. So carry on as normal with minimal wage outlay.
Some suppliers have reps furloughed but they still take phone calls and orders.
Some "just popping in to do a little bit, not proper work"................
One delivery driver told me he had just delivered to a family firm where all the staff were telling him they were furlough but working.

Boils my wee, I hope it's chased up for years and proper punishments handed down.

This doesn't surprise me in the least, very sad.

 

[Rorschach]

Incidentally one of the things Rishi Sunak announced in an early TV briefing was an intent to even up the tax treatment of the self employed and those on PAYE. Makes sense to me - there are many good reasons why one may choose to be self-employed but tax avoidance should not be one of them.

Totally agree along as the measures take into account that many self employed do not pay less tax than PAYE employees. If you are a very small business you will pay basically the same tax as anyone else but do not get any of the benefit of the being an employee. Any changes to the tax system must be proportionate.

 

[Droogs]

Whether they get a comeuppance, is entirely down to us. If you know of someone doing so then report them to the police for fraud and generate a case number and then follow it up and inform the HMRC of the info along with said case number.
IF not then they will get away with it. If I knew of anyone doing so I would definitely report them especially as I have had no income at all as I had needed to apply for ESA just before the lockdown (a week) so the furlough scheme is not open to me and I still have not received a groat from the DWP. My support worker at my local cancer charity was able to find out that my paperwork was sat on someones desk at the DWP, who was furloughed on full civil service pay. We have been living on what we had and food bank stuff since Feb and SWMBO's union has just said they will give her some cash from the hardship fund based on the fact she can't work as we are both stuck in the house until around Aug/Sep.

So yeah if you know of some self abuser being fraudulent then report them

 

[mbartlett99]

I know of one business that got caught by the Revenue - they didn't mess around.

 

[MikeG.]

Whether they get a comeuppance, is entirely down to us. If you know of someone doing so then report them to the police for fraud and generate a case number and then follow it up and inform the HMRC of the info along with said case number.
IF not then they will get away with it. If I knew of anyone doing so I would definitely report them especially as I have had no income at all as I had needed to apply for ESA just before the lockdown (a week) so the furlough scheme is not open to me and I still have not received a groat from the DWP. My support worker at my local cancer charity was able to find out that my paperwork was sat on someones desk at the DWP, who was furloughed on full civil service pay. We have been living on what we had and food bank stuff since Feb and SWMBO's union has just said they will give her some cash from the hardship fund based on the fact she can't work as we are both stuck in the house until around Aug/Sep.

So yeah if you know of some self abuser being fraudulent then report them

Sheesh, Droogs, that's a tough story. Is there anything we can do for you? I mean, even if it is just sending you a few bits of wood to play with.

 

[Droogs]

Thanks MikeG it is appreciated but we are starting to get things in place. A good friend managed to grab some tools from the workshop for me but not been really up to doing much - no stamina, it took me 8 hours to 1/4 an old door and screw it together to make a planter for veg). I have some veneers at home and am trying to gear myself up do a Peregrine Heathcote style Dr Kildare image sort of thing for my cancer ward. I will do a WIP when I get round to it.

 

[Selwyn]

Incidentally one of the things Rishi Sunak announced in an early TV briefing was an intent to even up the tax treatment of the self employed and those on PAYE. Makes sense to me - there are many good reasons why one may choose to be self-employed but tax avoidance should not be one of them.

Totally agree along as the measures take into account that many self employed do not pay less tax than PAYE employees. If you are a very small business you will pay basically the same tax as anyone else but do not get any of the benefit of the being an employee. Any changes to the tax system must be proportionate.

I agree with you. Its all very well singling out self employed as universal tax dodgers but its just not the case. We don't get 28 days paid holiday, sick pay etc and we still pay tax if our business makes a loss. And generally longer hours

 

[transatlantic]

Will you be reporting them Bob?

I know that this is not the right time to be investigating this kind of thing, but I really hope that after all this is over, people who took adavtange of the situation get some kind of punishment.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

My intention was not to suggest that all self employed are tax dodgers - the remarks were made particularly in the context of those paying themselves dividends rather than salary - and therefore lower tax.

If someone decides to become self employed they make personal choices about risks and rewards. No paid holidays, no redundancy schemes, no sick pay (unless insured) etc may be offset by no boss, directly rewarded for the effort put in, job satisfaction etc.

It is not the Treasury (and therefore the taxpayer) who should subsidise self employment - tax should be entirely neutral.

 

[thetyreman]

as always a tiny minority will always abuse the system, if you focus on it it'll just make you miserable.