Frost Dove st Norwich, anyone?

[Fat ferret]

Anyone encountered this make? I have a Frost Dove tenon saw I bought for £15 off ebay. 12TPI, 14" blade, nice closed beech handle with big solid split nuts and heavy brass back . My saw is good now its sharpened up, been using it for a while. Good for heavier work like doors and gates. Never seen anything else by this maker except a small try square, also on ebay. Just interested if anyone has used any tools by this maker or knows anything about them?

 

[condeesteso]

I needed to read this because Frost Dove st Norwich intrigued me. Can we see a pic please?

 

[Fat ferret]

Sorry no camera but if you google frost dove tenon saw theres one that sold on ebay not so long ago but it's not as nice as mine. Mine has split nuts and no medalion, handle has no varnish just dark beech.

 

[mtr1]

Dove st in Norwich is part of the lanes where there were cabinet makers and tool makers a plenty back in the day. but I've never heard of frost.

 

[condeesteso]

got it - looks very nice and if yours is better, a good find. Never heard of them but I'm no saw expert. Someone who is will be along soon. Here's the ebay one:

 

[Fat ferret]

It is a better one and and half the price of that one, somebody must have wanted that saw a lot :shock: !

 

[Alf]

Hand-saw Makers of Britain (1st edition) sez:
FROST (Dove Street) c.1830

That's based on an example of a saw or saws, the date based, I assume, on its features. While, British Planemakers (3rd edition) - yes, planes, bear with me - sez:

FROST, James
Dove St
Magdalen St <1864
St John's St, Maddermarket 1864-1892
FROST & BARRETT
St John's St, Maddermarket 1865-1971
Planemakers, later tool sellers and ironmongers.

We may all theorise from there, for there is much leeway in which to do so.

 

[penwithchris]

I have just bought a sweet gunmetal bullnose plane on EBay. It wasn't described as having been professionally manufactured so I was really pleased when it arrived to see it nicely stamped on the rosewood wedge, J FROST DOVE St NORWICH
I believe that James Frost was, originally, a toolmaker, but later became a tool dealer.
A lot of the planes he retailed were, in all likelihood, bought in from Henry Slater.
I haven't touched the plane since it arrived this morning, but, apart from removing a little surface rust from the unmarked blade, it's in lovely condition
A book does now exist on Norwich planemakers which should be of interest to the original poster.
Unwrapping this little plane was true 'serendipity'. a nice surprise to see out 2013

 

[bugbear]

A book does now exist on Norwich planemakers which should be of interest to the original poster.

It's of interest to me too:

Title?
Author?
Publisher?
Link?

Would all be much appreciated.

BugBear

 

[MMUK]

Would it be this one by Michael Shingfield?

Norwich Tool Makers & Tool Dealers

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Norwich-Tool-Ma ... ane+makers

 

[Boringgeoff]

I recently found this unremarkable James Chapman brace and was giving it a bit of a clean yesterday. On the chuck is stamped James Frost Norwich and the Chapman Reg. No 239718.
I entered James Frost in the search box and found this thread. This is the only James Frost tool I've seen.
Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[Rhyolith]

I think Frost may have been a tool retailer in Norwich... but working with vague memories here.

I have seen a number of shoulderplanes with frost markings on... never a sw though!

 

[JohnPW]

"Frost" branded tools seem to be fairly common on Ebay. They must have been the biggest tool dealer in the area.

 

[worn thumbs]

I remember their shop quite well and even bought a couple of boxwood chisel handles in their closing down sale.I have a couple of their firmer chisels too.They sold quality tools and had a rep who travelled to the major woodworking companies taking orders from the tradesmen and arranging for delivery.I knew older cabinetmakers who had dealt with them since they were apprentices and who held Frost in high regard.I suspect the tools were sourced from Sheffield and marked with the Frost stamp,but if anybody knows more about this I hope they will expand on the topic.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

In his book "From Tree to Sea", Ted Frost (no relation to Frost's that I know of) recounts his experiences as an apprentice Shipwright in Chambers Oulton Broad yard in Lowestoft, at the time of WW1. (It's a beautiful book illustrated with Ted's own excellent drawings, about the building of a wooden steam drifter - a sort of trawler - from the sourcing and felling of suitable timber, right through to launch and fitting out.)

He recounts, "We usually bought our tools from Frosts of Norwich, and their representative would come to the yard monthly to collect money from us for the tools that had been supplied."

He also kept a record of some of the tools he bought in 1916. For example, on May 23rd, he bought 1 pair of pincers for 1/8d, and a boat level for 1/2d. On June 7th, he bought (among other things) a 4 1/2" handsaw file for 5d, and a carborundum stone for 3/3d. On June 18th, he had a ratchet brace for 7/0d, a cold chisel for 1/3d, a compass saw for 1/11d and a caulking mallet and shaft for 5/6d.

So Frosts were definitely an established tool dealer by the time of World War 1.

 

[Boringgeoff]

Thanks for the info' chaps. CC the Ted Frost book sounds like a good read so thought I might buy a copy. It is still commanding a solid price second hand, over AU$100 was the cheapest I could find at Abebooks so changed my mind.
Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[DonMc]

I've been puzzled by the pattern of tools being marked Frost, Dove St., Norwich, while none of the directory listings for James Frost give that address. So, decided to see if I could find additional listings to see if I could find any with a Dove Street address. No luck, though there are gaps in the directories I've been able to access. I'm including listings I've found, which I suspect cover two generations of James Frosts:

1830 James Frost, grocer, ironmonger, Magdalen Street
1839 James Frost, shopkeeper, Magdalen Street
1850 James Frost, grocer, Magdalen Street
1854 James Frost, shopkeeper, Magdalen Street

1856 James Frost, dealer in edge tools, St. Augustine's Gates
1864 James Frost, cutler, Magdalen Street
1869 James Frost, general tool dealer, St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1877 James Frost, saw maker, St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1879 James Frost, general tool dealer, St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1883 James Frost, dealer in joiner's tools, St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1888 James Frost, general tool dealer, St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1890 James Frost, tool warehouse, 3 St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1892 James Frost, general tool warehouse, St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1896 James Frost, general tool warehouse, 3 St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1901 James Frost, tool makers & dealers, 3 St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1904 Alfred Ernest Barrett, tool maker, see Frost & Barrett
Walter Barrett, tool maker, see Frost & Barrett
Frost & Barrett, English & American tool warehouse, 3 St. John's Street, Maddermarket
1912 Frost & Barrett, tool warehouse, 3 St. John's Street, Maddermarket

Still curious about the Dove Street mark, I next looked at some 19th century maps of Norwich. They show that St. John's Street, Maddermarket, is a one block-long street, terminating at Charing Cross/St. Andrews on the North and Pottergate Street on the South. Then, Dove Lane (or Dove Street, according to the directories), is essentially a continuation of St. John's Street beyond the latter intersection for one block, and terminates at the Market Place. Frost's premises were two doors from the Pottergate intersection, and it seems he decided to use a Dove Street address for his mark. Possibly because of Dove Street's visibility at the Market Place? Or possibly because it resulted in a simpler mark?

Hope this has been of some interest.

Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR

 

[AndyT]

Thanks for the info' chaps. CC the Ted Frost book sounds like a good read so thought I might buy a copy. It is still commanding a solid price second hand, over AU$100 was the cheapest I could find at Abebooks so changed my mind.
Cheers,
Geoff.

It is indeed a book worth having. Classic Hand Tools sell it, new, at £19.95

https://www.classichandtools.com/acatal ... rades.html

Treat yourself!

 

[Boringgeoff]

Thanks Don and Andy. If one assumed that the branding on the tool would be changed to show the new partner Barrett could it then also be assumed that the brace is pre 1912 production?
That's a better price, thanks for the info Andy.

Cheers,
Geoff.