Friendship vs Greed

[RogerS]

Yes, it is true to say that there are some who are, to use an old-fashioned phrase, 'swinging the lead'. Just as there are some folk in employment fiddling expenses.

But equally, there are genuine folk who are very much living hand-to-mouth on a daily basis.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have a self employed neighbour who is worried about the plans for him to paid 80% of his earnings - he earns £40,000 p. a. ............. but according to HMRC he only earns £22,000. I can't say with any honesty that I feel sorry for him.

 

[shed9]

Yes, it is true to say that there are some who are, to use an old-fashioned phrase, 'swinging the lead'. Just as there are some folk in employment fiddling expenses.

But equally, there are genuine folk who are very much living hand-to-mouth on a daily basis.

Totally agree, neither end of those spectrums dilute or cancel the other one out.

 

[Lons]

Yes, it is true to say that there are some who are, to use an old-fashioned phrase, 'swinging the lead'. Just as there are some folk in employment fiddling expenses.

But equally, there are genuine folk who are very much living hand-to-mouth on a daily basis.

Yes there are!

A number of years ago I was on the 'phone to my brother the night before I planned to take an old fridge to the tip, it worked but was ancient and well past it's sell by date. He said that his neighbours parents needed one so I delivered it to them as only about 15 miles away and found they were a lovely retired couple in their seventies living in a very clean council bungalow with few mod cons but they were very definitely struggling.
Old school attitude, nothing on bought on tick too proud to ask for help their fridge had broken down 2 weeks earlier and they couldn't afford to have it repaired or replaced so milk was being kept in buckets of cold water etc. They both cried when I plugged in the fridge which was something I found very humbling.
They didn't class themselves as poor though they definitely were living hand to mouth.

 

[Nigel Burden]

I have a self employed neighbour who is worried about the plans for him to paid 80% of his earnings - he earns £40,000 p. a. ............. but according to HMRC he only earns £22,000. I can't say with any honesty that I feel sorry for him.

So that's £18,000 of untaxed income at 20per cent = £ 3600 multiplied by however many years that this has been going on. I would echo your sentiments there Phil.

Nigel.

 

[Selwyn]

Look the panic buying was real for sure. Everyone thinks they didn't do any of it but actually pretty much everyone did. I'm not talking about trolleys full of toilet roll but everyone bought a little bit more of this and that and created a panic.

Well maybe that's true in your little corner of Wales, from the tone of your posts you were one of them and it's perfectly understandable to add just a little more but your statement that " pretty much everyone did " is absolute bullsh*t, that's not what caused the shortages on the shelves.
None of my family did that and as far as I know none of my close friends either and several of them are the ones likely to be caring for the morons who caused the shortages, they're working long shifts and can't easily get what they need which is disgraceful, so I'll tell then you said not to worry they can have what they need very soon as it's " extremely temporary " :roll:
I witnessed panic buying with trolleys piled high with way way more than an extra tin or two and found it distasteful.

There was and is no shortage of food in this country. Whilst some headline photos of the pensioner in the supermarket hunched over the aisles, or the NHS nurse crying were undoubtedly real they were also extremely temporary. Facts are that there are always alternatives. Smaller shops said they had plenty of supply. Many catering sectors did too.

The feeding frenzy developed a further frenzy and then collective outrage because everybody still expected to get what they wanted when they wanted which is clearly not going to happen immediatley.

Try telling that to the people who can't get a delivery slot because they stop at April 10th and are sold out. I managed to get a click and collect for next Tuesday which has been booked for several days but I have to drive a 30 mile round trip to get it and take the risk, however small of contact.
Local shops have an amount of stock but it tends to be very limited due to size, shelf space and storage capacity and our local village shop has said the wholesaler has bumped up prices and limited orders.

I wasn't even in the country when the panic buying was going on. So I definitely didn't do any.

Don't be bothering with click and collect/ delivery at the moment that is fuelling the problems. Put some nitrile gloves on and go in and buy a basketful of goods that will keep you and your family going for a week.

 

[RogerS]

Look the panic buying was real for sure. Everyone thinks they didn't do any of it but actually pretty much everyone did. I'm not talking about trolleys full of toilet roll but everyone bought a little bit more of this and that and created a panic.

Well maybe that's true in your little corner of Wales, from the tone of your posts you were one of them and it's perfectly understandable to add just a little more but your statement that " pretty much everyone did " is absolute bullsh*t, that's not what caused the shortages on the shelves.
None of my family did that and as far as I know none of my close friends either and several of them are the ones likely to be caring for the morons who caused the shortages, they're working long shifts and can't easily get what they need which is disgraceful, so I'll tell then you said not to worry they can have what they need very soon as it's " extremely temporary " :roll:
I witnessed panic buying with trolleys piled high with way way more than an extra tin or two and found it distasteful.

There was and is no shortage of food in this country. Whilst some headline photos of the pensioner in the supermarket hunched over the aisles, or the NHS nurse crying were undoubtedly real they were also extremely temporary. Facts are that there are always alternatives. Smaller shops said they had plenty of supply. Many catering sectors did too.

The feeding frenzy developed a further frenzy and then collective outrage because everybody still expected to get what they wanted when they wanted which is clearly not going to happen immediatley.

Try telling that to the people who can't get a delivery slot because they stop at April 10th and are sold out. I managed to get a click and collect for next Tuesday which has been booked for several days but I have to drive a 30 mile round trip to get it and take the risk, however small of contact.
Local shops have an amount of stock but it tends to be very limited due to size, shelf space and storage capacity and our local village shop has said the wholesaler has bumped up prices and limited orders.

I wasn't even in the country when the panic buying was going on. So I definitely didn't do any.

Don't be bothering with click and collect/ delivery at the moment that is fuelling the problems. Put some nitrile gloves on and go in and buy a basketful of goods that will keep you and your family going for a week.

And thus completely ignoring Govt advice- especially for the elderly and vulnerable. But then, you know best.

 

[Selwyn]

Is Lons really elderly and vulnerable or is he quite capable of holding a shopping basket? Must be astonishing he can even do any woodwork if he is unable to go shopping for food. I am pretty sure Govt said to continue shopping for food with the appropriate precautions

As all supermarkets and suppliers have said repeatedly there is no shortage of food. There is no shortage of food. There is no shortage of food. There were plenty of resturants/ takeaways selling food.

There was a temporary surge whereby people were not prepared for the need to make alternative meals from what was left. That is quite different to starving and genuine need. I think you are too featherbedded quite frankly - what do you do for a living?

 

[Andy Kev.]

Yes, it is true to say that there are some who are, to use an old-fashioned phrase, 'swinging the lead'. Just as there are some folk in employment fiddling expenses.

But equally, there are genuine folk who are very much living hand-to-mouth on a daily basis.

I agree with that entirely and it brings us to something which I've believed for quite a while and that national government is incapable of addressing local problems efficiently as it simply has neither the time not capacity to thoroughly assess every case.

I imagine that many of us would be prepared to see the system being very generous to e.g. a suddenly widowed woman whose sole breadwinner is no longer there but who has to be at home because her children are at an age which requires her presence if they are to be well brought up.

OTH the kind of people illustrated in some of the cases cited here need a firm gripping. We could do something along the lines of pass a law which says that if you want to receive any benefit at all you sign up to agree to close supervision and control of your spending where there are grounds to believe that you are financially irresponsible and/or of anti-social habits. No signature, no money whatsoever and kids taken into care.

You could perhaps target benefits in this way if decision making was at the lowest practical level e.g. parish/village etc. In other words, decisions to be taken by people who know or at least can rapidly find out all about potential "clients". Get the local vicar, local bobby (if they still have them) and respectable members of the community on the steering committee.

All the govt. would then have to do would be to pass cash down the chain, safe in the knowledge that it would be spent more efficiently and in a more targeted way.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Is Lons really elderly and vulnerable or is he quite capable of holding a shopping basket?

I won't answer for him but I would come within spitting distance (a good measure, actually) of more people in five minutes in a supermarket than I've met and kept my distance from in three weeks. Work it out.

 

[Selwyn]

When you go to the shop - keep moving, have you list, don't cough on people and do it quickly. The chances of significant viral load are pretty damn low

 

[Phil Pascoe]

and pretty damn lower if you don't go there.

 

[Selwyn]

Well don't got there then.

But you have to eat so just go efficiently and quickly.

 

[RogerS]

When you go to the shop - keep moving, have you list, don't cough on people and do it quickly. The chances of significant viral load are pretty damn low

Thank you for your 'advice'. I think I'd prefer to take any advice regarding social-distancing from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

[nev]

STOP with the personal insults please.

It seems that any thread mention of the C word now is degenerating into personal digs.

At this rate it's heading to being another taboo subject like politics.

So if you cannot be polite and friendly in your discussions then it will end up in the bin.

Keep calm and carry on.

 

[Rorschach]

There are definitely people who know how to play they system and people that are genuinely struggling, the latter seem rare, the former very common.

Many years ago now my parents got divorced. My father being old enough took early retirement and lived on cash he had stolen from the joint account. By figuring things very carefully his income was low enough (on paper) that he got away without paying any maintenance for myself and sister despite the fact he was living very comfortably of course. We were told the only way to force him to pay up was to engage in a private prosecution which of course my mother could not afford having already been taken to cleaners by his solicitors and having all joint savings stolen.
My mother was working at the time to support us with help from my grandad. Her hours and earnings meant she was eligible for a few tax credits but little else. CAB told her she could give up work and get more benefits but her pride wouldn't let her.

Pride and morals end up costing you money in this world unfortunately.

The missus and I could live quite comfortably if we had a few kids and refused to work, the SIL basically did that, 3 kids, free house and hasn't worked since.

As to the SE grants they are offering. Lucky for me my declared income is genuine as it should be, I don't earn much but at the least the money from the government should stop me going into debt and keep the lights on etc.

 

[RogerS]

.....
As to the SE grants they are offering. Lucky for me my declared income is genuine as it should be, I don't earn much but at the least the money from the government should stop me going into debt and keep the lights on etc.

Fingers crossed for you.

 

[MikeK]

My wife and I returned from our weekend shopping at the local Rewe. The store has a new "one out, one in" policy for Saturday shoppers, but our wait was less than five minutes. Fortunately, the weather is great.

Once inside, I noticed all of the shelves and food bins were mostly to fully stocked, with store employees restocking in real time. Plenty of flour, sugar, pasta, packaged bread, meats, cheeses, vegetables, and fruits...just like it was before the hoarding rage started. The toilet and kitchen paper shelves were about two-thirds full with several brands. At the checkout line, there was a pallet each of toilet and kitchen paper, with a sign notifying customers of the purchase limit of one package per customer per visit. I didn't think to look for hand sanitizer.

Since we still had plenty of paper from our visit two months ago, we didn't buy any. While waiting in line to enter the store, I noticed that at least half of the customers leaving didn't have toilet paper in their carts. Hopefully the hoarding madness is over for my area.

 

[Rorschach]

.....
As to the SE grants they are offering. Lucky for me my declared income is genuine as it should be, I don't earn much but at the least the money from the government should stop me going into debt and keep the lights on etc.

Fingers crossed for you.

Thanks. I can do a little bit of work during all of this, but I have no guarantees of selling it after so will be nice to have at least some income. Mostly I am going to spend my time prepping stock and getting ready for things getting back to normal, if they do.

 

[ScaredyCat]

The plural of anecdote is not data

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