Framesaw blades

[tnimble]

I need to rip quite some lumber into planks / boards, instead of getting a bandsaw (I've not really the room for one, and they are quite expensive here with decent capacity). So I'm planning on making a framesaw.

The only part is getting a blade for it. I've searched around for something but there are not so many types of blade around except for huge quantity of circular saw blades and some band saw blades.

The current options would be:
- buying a bandsaw blade and cut it into pieces.
Which type and width blade?

- Getting an old/cheap handsaw, soften the iron, cut it to shape, harden and temper the blade.
What teeth profile and tpi?

- Buying one in the UK of states.

 

[Benchwayze]

HLaura,

I have only ever cut 'logs' into planks on my bandsaw once.
This was cherry, about 150mm (6 "?) diameter, and to all intents and purposes 'green'.

I fitted the widest blade my saw could handle (3/4" - 18mm) and chose a skip-tooth 3 teeth per inch. It wasn't the easiet thing I ever did on my saw, but it did the job.

So I can only suggest a bandsaw blade as a choice, if you are converting timber from the round. But then I've never considered doing that by hand-saw..
Hope this helps.

John .

 

[George_N]

Jim Swingley uses a 1/2", 6 tpi bandsaw blade for his framesaw. The good thing about using a bandsaw blade is that you could probably get several blades for your frame saw out of it.

 

[Scrit]

Bandsaw makers should be able to cut coil stock into lengths for you, the problem will be how to drill into tempered steel to make the fixing holes. I'll therefore suggest a couple of alternatives. Firstly Ulmia hand frame saws are still made (and there should be an importer in the Netherlands, if not try Dick in Germany) so their frame saw blades might be of use. Alternatively there are still several frame saw manufacturers in Germany and Austria. In the UK I believe that Stenner of Tiverton once had a tie-up with one of these firms (multi-blade frame saws are used to saw bed slats, etc). Having pre-manufactured blades might be easier simply because the securing holes are normally punched out of blade blanks in their soft, annealed state before toothing, sharpening, hardening and tempering are done. Shown below is an older Wurster & Dietz multi-rip frame saw of the type I'm referring to:

Smaller models are still being made by firms such as Wintersteiger and are used in veneer production, ski-making, etc. Watch the video here and you'll see one in action. The type of blades they use would be ideal

Scrit

 

[Benchwayze]

Jim Swingley uses a 1/2", 6 tpi bandsaw blade for his framesaw. The good thing about using a bandsaw blade is that you could probably get several blades for your frame saw out of it.

Hi George,

This is what I was imagining TN was referring to. A sort of 'bow-saw'. The Swingley model uses a bolt and sleeve to tension the blade it seems; rather than a windlass, as per a normal bow-saw. Looks like a useful piece of kit for aggressive ripping.


Regards
John

 

[Benchwayze]

Bandsaw makers should be able to cut coil stock into lengths for you, the problem will be how to drill into tempered steel to make the fixing holes.
Scrit

Wouldn't a cobalt drill bit do this Scrit? I am told these bits will make short work of a normal saw-blade. I might have been misinformed, or misunderstood, but that's how I interpreted the info I got from a site that dealt with re-handling tenon saws.

Would welcome your comments.

Cheers

John

 

[George_N]

I have a cheap Irwin bowsaw (metal frame) and when I replaced the blade I couldn't get high enough tension so I decided to drill another hole in the blade. I quickly found out that you need either a cobalt drill bit, as suggested, or you need to anneal the steel and drill it with a regular drill bit. I opted for the latter as I couldn't lay hands on a cobalt bit at short notice. I heated the end of the blade with a propane torch while keeping the rest of the blade cool with a wet rag wrapped round it. After the blade cooled naturally (no quenching) it drilled easily.
I have also heard that you can anneal a spot on the blade by working the spot repeatedly with a centre punch (I think I recall that a hardened masonry nail is good for this).

 

[tnimble]

Tanks for the reactions guys,. The Jim Swingley frame saw looks very interesting (I had already foun him being mentioned here and there but got a bad gateway so could not see his saw until now).

Thanks scrit the ulmia seems very nice going to look into that for at least a turningsaw. A bucksaw is not very handy for ripping large stock. With the blade inline with the mid section and tentioner the length if the lumber to rip is very limited. With the blade rotated to 90 degrees the saw is unbalanced and the board width is somewhat limited (mostly not a problem). It should be very easy to fit the bucksaw blade in a custom frame.

There is a ulmsia distributor in NL but the pricing is a bit high. (dep on the product about double to tripple the price in DE :shock: )

About drilling holes and cutting bandsaw blades. This should not be to hard a task to do. A hacksaw should saw it without many problems. Also would drilling a hole with a descent HSS bit with some lube. Bandsaw blades will not be hardened very high or only the teeth section is. Otherwise the continues bending of the blade while passing the wheels and the weld would cause trouble.

I would not recommend hammer annealing with alloyed steels and high hardness items.

 

[Philipp]

Scrit got the point, simply use a bow saw blade, 600 mm long and file to rip and sharpen by your own (they are usually never sharp enough off the shelf).
In Germany every DIY-store stores such blades and I don't think that this is much different in the Netherlands.
Holes for the fixing pins are easily drilled after heating the blade's ends with a soldering torch and letting the metal cool down slowly.

Regards
Philipp

 

[tnimble]

In Germany every DIY-store stores such blades and I don't think that this is much different in the Netherlands.

Don't get me started. You would be supriced how well stocked they are. There seems to de a small difference to the stores between the est and the east side of the Netherlands, the east being better.

They have a few unbranded handsaws and one or two hardpoint saws of stanley and or bahco. They have 1 sometimes 2 types of fretsaws, and 2 types of bowsaws (baby 10cm and reg 30cm).

The spare blades stocked are:
- Non pin type fretsaw blades one szie only
- Pin type metal saw 10cm
- Hole type metal bow saw 30cm
- combi circular saw blades in 2 or 3 diameters, no choice in tpi, rip versus crosscut, or things like skip teeth or negative cut.
- various jigsaw blades, choices: fine for metal, medium for wood or course for plastics/wood and reverse cut for laminate flooring. The latter often in back order.

A 60cm bowsaw blade such as depicted maybe for sale at a gardening centre.

The DIY stores however are perfect for buying flowers, plants, bikes, moppets, tellies, refrigerates, fitness equipment, pillows, blankets, shoes, jackets, outdoor furneture, bookcases etc. :roll: This was very different about 10 years ago.

 

[Scrit]

I think that is very true. Having lived in the east I can well remember the "tool divide" between the more German-style tools (mainly saws and chiseld) we could buy in places like Nijmegen, Arnhem and Hengelo and what was available in the Randstadt. For me it was a doddle to pop over the border on a Saturday morning (providing it was a shopping Saturday - do the Germans still have those?) and go to somewhere like Bocholt (where ther used to be quirte a good toolshop, but then Apeldoorn and Nijmegen both had good tool shops in their respective town centres in those days, which were incidentally about 30 years ago now)

Scrit

 

[Kazsub]

Hi, I don't know if it helps at all but was just perusing Rutland's catalogue and they have a couple of frame saws in there and just blades for them on their own if the frames aren't quite right for what you have in mind

 

[tnimble]

Scrit,

I don't know if shopping saturday is still the same as 30 years ago. Baptist in Arnhem would currently be the most respectable shop. They started around early 1980ies so I'm not exactly sure they already existed back then. They also organise a woodworking show once in one or two years

As far for the blades, thanks again everybody. I think I'm set now, I'll posts some pics and maybe a little WIP later on.