Four MDF Alcove Units - WIP

[BradNaylor]

The cupboards look like they are coming on well, i look forward to seeing them being fitted.

So do I, mate.

So do I!


Dan

 

[chippy1970]

Nice job Dan, when you price up stuff like this do you completely design the whole thing and work out all the parts first or do you have a shortcut way of getting a final price.

I could do with a few tips I have been a chippy/joiner for 20 years now and do all types of carpentry, but because I might not do a built in cupboard for a while I never have a set way for doing things. One thing I have set on is that I build carcases from 18 mdf with 6 or 9 mm backs then I usually level these in and scribe in-fills in all around. The last ones I did I tried face frames for a change and they looked so much better, I think they are the way to go from now on. I used a Kreg jig to do mine as they were solid timber not MDF, have not got the luxury of a Domino yet.

 

[CNC Paul]

Hi Chippy,

I make all kinds of fitted and freestanding cabinets, I am not working at the moment due to an injury, but if you fancy a chat and a coffee come over to the workshop.

Just PM me for contact.

 

[BradNaylor]

Nice job Dan, when you price up stuff like this do you completely design the whole thing and work out all the parts first or do you have a shortcut way of getting a final price.

Nearly all my stuff is made of MR MDF and painted, or lipped veneered MDF with solid face frames and doors.

The painted jobs take longer because of the finishing, but the 'wood' jobs have more cost in the materials. Overall though, I reckon they come out about the same price. In both cases, the vast majority of the price the customer pays is for my time, not for the materials used.

So yes, I do have a shortcut way of getting a final price.

I simply estimate how long a job is going to take me from start to finish, including the fitting. For instance, a painted MDF alcove unit with doors at the bottom and shelving above will take me about a week - 3 days planning and making, 1 day finishing, and 1 day fitting.

My total overheads are about £40 per day. On an average job, I will also use around £40 worth of materials, fittings, and consumables a day. So I simply calculate a final price by charging my time out at £250 per day, including materials.

This makes an average alcove unit £1250. That to me is a nice, profitable weeks work. Particularly if I can knock it out in 4 days...

:wink:

Of course, if I am quoting for a solid maple dining table or if the client specifies some particularly expensive hardware I will be more careful in my costings. But for most of my bread and butter work I find this method works fine.

It also has the advantage of my being able to give a potential client a price for a job the first time I go round to see them. This means I can usually close the sale there and then without messing around doing a quote. I like to drive away with a signed order and a deposit cheque in my pocket!

Cheers
Dan

 

[BradNaylor]

Everything was going swimmingly with the painting of the alcove units yesterday until I wandered nonchalantly into the timber store to pull down four 8' lengths of tulipwood cornice moulding which I have made for me by a local company and keep in stock for jobs just like this.


Only three lengths left... AARGH!!! The units are all over 4' wide so I need four lengths unless I join them - which is not something I want to do.

There's nothing for it but to make some out of 22mm MDF. My cutters are a slightly different profile to the bought-in stuff so I have to make the lot. At least it gives me a chance to show you how it's done. :lol:

I've never used MDF before for this job and I' surprised how easy it is. With hardwoods I cut the profile in 5 or 6 shallow passes but the MDF goes through in one pass without trouble.

The profile is cut in two halves as my spindle moulder is only a little'un.

First half

I then flip the board over and cut the other half

Trim the edges at 45 degrees on the table saw. Isn't it neat how the flash on a camera 'stops' the blade?

Within half an hour I've got a pile of cornice

I always like to mitre the ends before finishing. No need for shooting boards in this workshop! :lol:

And a quick coat of primer before going home to see what's for tea!

I had these cutters made up to my specification by my local saw doctor. I'd be happy to email details if anyone is interested in having some made.

Cheers
Dan

 

[promhandicam]

snip . . The painted jobs take longer because of the finishing, but the 'wood' jobs have more cost in the materials. Overall though, I reckon they come out about the same price.

I've come to the same conclusion only my preference is for veneered as I don't have the space to spray the painted ones. I've also found a good supplier for veneered mdf which makes the material costs less.

This makes an average alcove unit £1250. That to me is a nice, profitable weeks work. Particularly if I can knock it out in 4 days...

Is that what you are charging for one alcove or a pair? In some ways there isn't a lot more work to make a pair than to make one. FWIW, the oak ones I just did were £1400 supplied and fitted which I was pleased with.

Steve[/quote]

 

[BradNaylor]

This makes an average alcove unit £1250. That to me is a nice, profitable weeks work. Particularly if I can knock it out in 4 days...

Is that what you are charging for one alcove or a pair? In some ways there isn't a lot more work to make a pair than to make one. FWIW, the oak ones I just did were £1400 supplied and fitted which I was pleased with.

Steve

I charge around £1250 for one alcove. As you rightly say, doing two doesn't take twice as long so I might charge £2000 for a pair if I'm feeling generous.

:wink:

Dan

 

[Buckeye]

Check out some of the built ins and offices from this place in their photo galleries. Some great work and inspiration

http://www.crown-point.com/builtins/builtins.html

 

[BradNaylor]

Check out some of the built ins and offices from this place in their photo galleries. Some great work and inspiration

http://www.crown-point.com/builtins/builtins.html

Very nice, in an 'American' kind of way.

I'm tempted to print some of those photos off and make a portfolio of them, Pinky style!

:lol:

Dan

 

[crownpoint]

Very nice, in an 'American' kind of way.

I'm tempted to print some of those photos off and make a portfolio of them, Pinky style!

:lol:

Dan

Thanks, glad you like my photos and the hard work of our crew!

Jeff

 

[DangerousDave]

I know a lot of you chaps use Dominos for face frames, but whats the best way to attach the frame to the carcasses in situ if you haven't got one? Biscuits/glue/brads? Would you then paint the face frame after installation (i'm thinking about the brad holes) :?

I'm going to be making a face frame using Kreg pocket screws soon, but am agonizing over how to fit it

Duncan, love the WIPs, keep 'em coming.

Buckeye, you're just down the road from me (I'm in Bangor)

 

[chippy1970]

I know a lot of you chaps use Dominos for face frames, but whats the best way to attach the frame to the carcasses in situ if you haven't got one? Biscuits/glue/brads? Would you then paint the face frame after installation (i'm thinking about the brad holes) :?

I'm going to be making a face frame using Kreg pocket screws soon, but am agonizing over how to fit it

Duncan, love the WIPs, keep 'em coming.

Buckeye, you're just down the road from me (I'm in Bangor)

The last one I did with timber face frames I used the kreg jig to fit the frames too, all the kreg holes were on the out side of the carcase so hidden.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... t=kreg+jig

 

[JonnyD]

I know a lot of you chaps use Dominos for face frames, but whats the best way to attach the frame to the carcasses in situ if you haven't got one? Biscuits/glue/brads? Would you then paint the face frame after installation (i'm thinking about the brad holes) :?

I'm going to be making a face frame using Kreg pocket screws soon, but am agonizing over how to fit it

Duncan, love the WIPs, keep 'em coming.

Buckeye, you're just down the road from me (I'm in Bangor)

I usually pocket screw the face frame to the carcase.

If the carcase is fixed and there is no way of using pocket screws I have in the past used the red plastic biscuits which grip and clamp with some glue on the carcase edge. http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Lame ... -22531.htm. They are pretty expensive but you might be able to find someone who does smaller quantities.

I sometimes use these fixings as well which allow the frame to be taken off if necessary or can be used with glue for a secure fixing.

http://www.hafele.co.uk/Hafele35a1/Temp ... ress%2Dfit

Jon

 

[CNC Paul]

You could allways use the Norm Abram's method.....Bloody great nail gun 8)

 

[BradNaylor]

whats the best way to attach the frame to the carcasses in situ if you haven't got one? Biscuits/glue/brads?

My plan with this job is to scribe the face frame to the alcove and then to attach it to the carcass down on the ground using glue, clamps, and the Domino slots I have already cut in the workshop. Biscuits would work just as well.

Then, with the help of my assistant Karl, lift the upper units into place atop the base units wherin they will slot snugly into their respective alcove.

He says confidently...

:roll:

We will know by Thursday night.

Dan

 

[Benchwayze]

Tell you what Dan.

I wish I was young again. I would be having a go myself.

I hate MDF and would never have considered using it for even built-ins.
But I do have profiling cutters, biscuit-jointers etc., so maybe I should have decided to use it, because I always realised it was 'doable'. I just never thought there would be a market for it.

Mind you, I'd have a problem lifting that cabinet, in 18mm MDF.

 

[DangerousDave]

Ah, now I get it So I level the cabinets in place, offer up the (shop assembled) frame and scribe it as I would an ordinary fillet. Then remove the cabinets, place them flat on the ground and fix the face frame using pocket screws on the outside of the carcass sides Bob's yer uncle. Now, why didn't I think of that This is the first time I'm trying fitted units with a face frame as opposed to fillets, think it'll look a lot better. Thanks for the help, chaps much appreciated

 

[Mike Saville]

Watching this thread with much interest as I have many such alcoves to fit in my house (10 if I wanted to do them all!!).

 

[BradNaylor]

Karl and I have been fitting the base units today - we will have the upper units fitted tomorrow.

I'll post some photos then.

Cheers
Dan

 

[katellwood]

Dan

The cutterblock for the cornice, what sort of steel is it to cut MDF so cleanly

regards