floats

[GEPPETTO]

Hi,
It is long time, I have concerned to make those tools called "floats", because I want build wooden plane. I have just sawn two pieces of high rate carbon steel. Now I must file the teeth, and after I will do the hardening procedure.
I am very afraid the floats going to warping.
If is there someone who has build floats, may drive me into correct way??

 

[Shady]

Try this site - looks pretty sensible..

http://home.insightbb.com/~sepost/skew_floats.html

His advice is don't do it, it's not really necessary - he only tempered his because he has access to professional kit for doing it .

 

[Alf]

His advice is don't do it, it's not really necessary - he only tempered his because he has access to professional kit for doing it .

Lief Hanson agrees here. His step-by-step tale of how he made his starts here.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

floats ! Every day something new ! Hadn't the slightest suspect of the existence of such gizmos so far... How did I manage to survive ????
Thanks for turning the light on !
Cheers
Alberto

 

[Shady]

Just be aware Mantrakalas, I've seen at least one site where a 'semi-professional' wooden plane maker said that he didn't bother with floats: I seem to remember that he swore by a reground and adapted 'chisel/scraper' he'd made. Can't remember the link, but it appeared to offer one less set of actions to have to undergo (eg cutting all the teeth in a float...)

 

[GEPPETTO]

Thanks, to everybody. I had already visited those sites . However I think if those tools must to work like saws, they must to be hardened. We should ask to Clark & Williams planemakers http://www.planemaker.com/ if they hardening their floats.
However I think if during the quenching process we immerse much in deep the tools, they should cool in equal rate around the piece and the inner tensions should be equals in every part of the steel and the floats should not warp.

 

[Alf]

But saws aren't hardened - at least "proper" saws aren't, not those plastic-handled hard point monstrosities...

Cheers, Alf

 

[GEPPETTO]

But saws aren't hardened - at least "proper" saws aren't, not those plastic-handled hard point monstrosities...

Cheers, Alf

I don't have much experience about it, and I thought that everything which cut something if hardened should have a longer life :? . It's true that wood is more mild of steel but hardening the tool should be better. Perhaps,are only chisels hardened?

 

[Chris Knight]

I think if during the quenching process we immerse much in deep the tools, they should cool in equal rate around the piece and the inner tensions should be equals in every part of the steel and the floats should not warp.

But make sure you plunge the workpiece in vertically otherwise it will still warp by differential cooling.

 

[Alf]

I thought that everything which cut something if hardened should have a longer life :? .

It will, but it will also be more difficult to sharpen. It's up to you whether you think the time and trouble taken to harden the floats, and subsequently sharpen them, is worth it. Personally I'm a lazy so-and-so so I'd probably use them as is, and touch them up with a file as necessary.

Shady, sounds like Bill Carter. (Down near the bottom "On truing beds")

Cheers, Alf

 

[Shady]

Alf - yup, that's the one. Interesting idea.

Geppetto: no, they don't 'have' to be hardened. Yes, Clarke & Williams harden theirs, but they are a full time commercial team, so the return on investment is worth it for them. As Alf says, just like traditional saws, adequate hardness is what is needed: and all the experienced guys out there doing this report warping and problems when hardening floats. Good luck, but I'd try a non hardened set first and see what you think. (Actually, I'd try the Bill Carter 'scraping chisel' first, because that's about the level of my metal working skills: heat it up and then cool it... :wink: )

 

[GEPPETTO]

OK. You have convinced to me. I will not harden the floats.
After your answers I have thought: if saw teeth are hardened, they will broke very easy and the saw will should not be very flexible. Is it true?

However if it will be a poor result the floats will harden in a second time.

 

[Alf]

After your answers I have thought: if saw teeth are hardened, they will broke very easy and the saw will should not be very flexible. Is it true?

<fearlessly wades into topic she knows nothing about (no change there then)>
As it happens Disston made a saw with a hardened blade; the 120 ACME. As used by Wiley Coyote I presume... As far as I know the modern hardpoint saw just has the teeth impulse-hardened, but the ACME has the whole blade done. No idea how much it effected its flexibility, but it sure as anything made setting the teeth a non-starter. :shock:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

My own attempt (with a couple of friends) at making plane floats per the Tod Herrli instructions was pretty bad so I am hesitant to even talk about this .
One attempt was to use steel from bed frame channel irons. This steel has some carbon content and is hardened somewhat. It was too hard to hacksaw and file easily so we switched to fully annealed O-1. I wish we had seen Scott Post's page referenced above because we did a very uneven job filing teeth and the teeth really weren't sharp enough to do a good job. I'd buy the darn things from C&W if I go this route again but I'll try an alternate procedure next time. The "scraper chisel" looks like a promising alternative and Steve Knight uses one (at least he used to) on certain types of planes.
Concerning vintage handsaws, they were hardened and tempered to somewhere in the RC 45-50 range. Not real hard but not fully annealed either.