Flattening a waterstone

[Evergreen]

I have a cheapo combination waterstone and keep the coarse side flat by rubbing it on some very large paving slabs in my garden. Works a treat and cleans the paving slabs at the same time!

I flatten the fine side on some very coarse aluminium oxide abrasive paper but I don't know what grit it is.

 

[Benchwayze]

Right on Smudger.

Until I couldn't kneel any more, that's how I did it for oil or water stones. I get my son to do it now. :wink: Mind you, he's getting creaky himself, so I might have to do what Frank Klausz does!

You have all probably heard me talk about Klausz. At risk of boring everyone again, Klausz uses a piece of Melamine covered MDF instead of a float glass. He claims it's flatter than glass. I can't imagine him using a method that doesn't work.

Alf, nice to see you again. How come you're not impressed with water stones? I found them fast and no messier than oilstones. I use separate stones for plane irons and chisels. Until it goes too far, a slight hollow gives just the right arc on my irons, without really trying! I don't use a gauge, so the hollow doesn't develop so quickly and I don't flatten so often as some workers might.

Regards
John

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Alf, i certainly think you are right, they are trying to rinse my pockets.

Does anyone know if you have to true up a whetstone on a tormek with a diamond true jig?

I could never get on with the truing tool. I ended with deepish grooves in the surface of the wheel. I don't true very often, and when I do, I use a carborundum stick, as used for de-glazing grinder wheels. Much cheaper. It does a reasonable job, if you rest it on the flat part of the basic guide. Only rarely do I need to shift the angle of approach to square the bevel with the sides.

HTH

Cheers

John

 

[Alf]

Alf, nice to see you again. How come you're not impressed with water stones?

Hiya, John; likewise. Gosh, it's a long time ago now; iirc I wasn't 'ticularly impressed with the mess or the rate of wear. The mess really bothered me because it's, well, water - and water and steel make my favourite thing in all the world... So if you miss any at all, you have a potential nightmare. Not an issue with oilstones (although obviously you have to take some care over not getting oil on the work), plus the oil doesn't flow off to all corners of the tool with quite such alacrity. The wear thing was probably as much to do with the excessive care I seemed to need to use, on narrow tools f'rinstance. An 1/8" chisel is a bear to sharpen anyway, without having to think about being careful of the sharpening medium as well. I have a similar reservation about Scary Sharp in that respect.

As I say, it was a long old time ago now, and it may be I'd be happier with them now I'm generally happier sharpening all round, but a combination of diamond and oilstones seem to suit me, so I'm inclined to just go on my way rejoicing these days.

Smudger, where's that excellent drawing from? And where can I borrow me one of those industrious infants? I've got a couple of old stones of my grandpa's that would benefit.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Peter T]

Yesterday I bought a DMT 120 grit.

Tried it out on some beat-up old chisels that needed re-grinding.............What a fantastic thing!! The material removal rate is huge and no losing flatness like the 120grit waterstone.

I also found that it's an excellent tool for flattening waterstones, a bit pricey if you bought it just for that, but if you use it for grinding as well, the flattening comes free

 

[Mr Ed]

If you're going to go to the expense of buying a diamond stone to flatten your waterstones, it begs the question why not just buy a suitable diamond stone to do the sharpening and dispense with the waterstones altogether.

The flatness is the thing that stopped me using them as the mess of keeping them flat and the hassle of the process became something that stopped me sharpening as often as I should. Thats when i knew it was time to change.

Ed

 

[Peter T]

If you're going to go to the expense of buying a diamond stone to flatten your waterstones, it begs the question why not just buy a suitable diamond stone to do the sharpening and dispense with the waterstones altogether.

The flatness is the thing that stopped me using them as the mess of keeping them flat and the hassle of the process became something that stopped me sharpening as often as I should. Thats when i knew it was time to change.

Ed

I bought the DMT to replace the 120 grit waterstone 'cos I was fed up with continually having to flatten it.

I'm happy with my finer grit waterstones, although I haven't tried any finer grit diamonds yet.

The flattening capabilities of the 120 grit DMT is a welcome by-product.

BTW, the DMT instructions recommend water as the ONLY lubricant to use with the diamond stone. I remember a thread on here sometime ago in which members recommended things like WD40. I don't want to hijack this thread but I can't find the other one. Anyone point me in the right direction please?

Thanks,

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

If you're going to go to the expense of buying a diamond stone to flatten your waterstones, it begs the question why not just buy a suitable diamond stone to do the sharpening and dispense with the waterstones altogether.

Ed

Diamonds are not forever. I am amazed that so many here (and rarely on other forums - I see this as a measure of local preference) use diamond stones for such a large portion of their honing, if not entirely. Diamond stones wear out. I am not talking about that they lose their bite as they wear. They wear out full stop, or the glue that binds the diamonds to the nickle base loses its grip. Yes, I have had some diamond stones for a number of years, some as long at 10 years, but they do not function satisfactorally. They work, but not very well any more.

Using a diamond stone on a waterstone is another matter. Waterstones - and oilstones - will not affect the longevity of the diamonds (from what I have read). Steel, however, does.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[wizer]

so, out of interest. How long will a course grit water stone last?

 

[Peter T]

so, out of interest. How long will a course grit water stone last?

Not long if you use it a lot!!

Mine has lost about 1/3rd of it's thickness in about 18 months of very light, hobby use.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

In the coarse range, forget waterstones. They are too soft and wear rapidly. The problem with this is that they dish and this shape is transfered to the blade. They wear fast because this is part of the design - offering up fresh, sharp grit to be used.

Use sandpaper (glued to glass or granite) if you must grind by hand. You could also try loose diamond grit or diamond paste.

Better still, use a grinding wheel or belt sander.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Alf]

I remember a thread on here sometime ago in which members recommended things like WD40. I don't want to hijack this thread but I can't find the other one. Anyone point me in the right direction please?

Found a couple, Peter:
Diamonds are forever
Diamond stone lube

fwiw I still use the same coarse/fine DMT I've had for, oo, yonks now - still with paraffin, still with no problems. Must be me delicate lady-like touch... :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[woodbloke]

The wear thing was probably as much to do with the excessive care I seemed to need to use, on narrow tools f'rinstance. An 1/8" chisel is a bear to sharpen anyway, without having to think about being careful of the sharpening medium as well.

Cheers, Alf

I honed my 3mm LN in the KIII using Matthew's ss papers last night Alf in about 30secs...no tears, no wear.
I kicked waterstones into touch a long time ago - Rob

 

[Mr Ed]

fwiw I still use the same coarse/fine DMT I've had for, oo, yonks now - still with paraffin, still with no problems. Must be me delicate lady-like touch...

Ditto for me, I obviously have a ladylike touch as well!

Ed

 

[Peter T]

I remember a thread on here sometime ago in which members recommended things like WD40. I don't want to hijack this thread but I can't find the other one. Anyone point me in the right direction please?

Found a couple, Peter:
Diamonds are forever
Diamond stone lube

fwiw I still use the same coarse/fine DMT I've had for, oo, yonks now - still with paraffin, still with no problems. Must be me delicate lady-like touch... :lol:

Cheers, Alf

Thanks for that. The "Diamond stone lube" thread was the one I was thinking of. There are almost as many recommended lubes as there are posts!! I guess it's not critical so long as it prevents the abrasive clogging

I used water yesterday and, while it worked OK, it was as messy as using a waterstone.

I have some of the Trend diamond stone lube which I might try.

 

[Saint Simon]

I have been using scary sharp for about 18 months, recently adding the 1 micron sheet to the plate. I am very happy with the results generally but I have two questions about it:
One of the attractions for me, having watched others making a mess of benches and vices using oilstones, was its cleanliness. I use the system dry. Am I missing out on the systems full potential by not using a lubricant/cleaner of some kind, paraffin, camelia oil?
Secondly I am nervous of using it with my Veritas mk11 guide for my small chisels. The guide really doesn't seem to suite the narrow blades. Would the Kell no.1 guide be a better bet?

 

[woodbloke]

I have been using scary sharp for about 18 months, recently adding the 1 micron sheet to the plate. I am very happy with the results generally but I have two questions about it:
One of the attractions for me, having watched others making a mess of benches and vices using oilstones, was its cleanliness. I use the system dry. Am I missing out on the systems full potential by not using a lubricant/cleaner of some kind, paraffin, camelia oil?
Secondly I am nervous of using it with my Veritas mk11 guide for my small chisels. The guide really doesn't seem to suite the narrow blades. Would the Kell no.1 guide be a better bet?

I've switched over to water from paraffin on the KIII with the SS papers. If you see my recent and controversial thread on using the KIII, you'll see that it will hold any chisel (bar big mortise chisels) easily, including the narrowest of blades - Rob

 

[Alf]

I honed my 3mm LN in the KIII using Matthew's ss papers last night Alf in about 30secs...no tears, no wear.
I kicked waterstones into touch a long time ago - Rob

Yebbut, Rob, I kicked honing guides into touch a long time ago. :wink: :lol:

Well that's an over-simplification for comedic effect, but as I do prefer to freehand hone the majority of the time, any sharpening medium that requires me to divert my concentration from the tool bothers me. Only pulling the tool, for instance, would completely alter my habits and technique. Unlikely to be a convert here, sorry.

Cheers, Alf

 

[woodbloke]

I honed my 3mm LN in the KIII using Matthew's ss papers last night Alf in about 30secs...no tears, no wear.
I kicked waterstones into touch a long time ago - Rob

Yebbut, Rob, I kicked honing guides into touch a long time ago. :wink: :lol:

Well that's an over-simplification for comedic effect, but as I do prefer to freehand hone the majority of the time, any sharpening medium that requires me to divert my concentration from the tool bothers me. Only pulling the tool, for instance, would completely alter my habits and technique. Unlikely to be a convert here, sorry.

Cheers, Alf

Yebbut, yebbut Alf...forget not that I can hone freehand, but I choose not to :wink: - Rob

 

[Philly]

I've been using a 1000 grit Shapton instead of my usual King stone - these wear much slower and cut very fast. And the 1000 grit stone is almost affordable, unlike some of the finer Shaptons.... :lol:
Philly AKA the Simple Sharpener