Fixing door lining gaps...

[shorn]

Hi,
Following from my thread about replacing door linings, I've now got round to fitting the doors. I had seven in total and I've had mixed results in fitting, but I'm hoping they are all things that I can rectify.
So out of the seven doors, 5 are 686mm wide, one 610mm and one 533mm wide.

For the five 686mm doors, I made up a template/former that was ~690mm wide and used this to set the linings.
When I've come to swing the doors, two are fine, but the other three are not. two of them have a larger gap on the latch side and one is too tight.

Not quite sure how it's ended up that way but here I am. So just looking for suggestions on the best way to rectify.
For the doors where the gap is too large. It's roughly about 4mm too wide on the latch side.

Here's some photos to demo...

So thinking about the best way to deal with it. Obviously I could try and wedge the lining out, but that;s going to be more difficult now that it's plastered and I can;t wedge out the top where its joined to the head. Alternatively, I could glue and pin a 4mm thick strip between the face and door stop to close the gap. Not really heard of that being done though. All linings and architraves are being painted to wouldn't really be able to tell.


For the one that's too tight. It's clear that there is a slight bow in the middle of the lining. The top and bottom gap is correct.
Would this just be a case of planing the centre of the lining down, or would it be better to try and screw the lining back further? Obviously this would involve chopping away the plaster that butts up to the lining. I'm also not sure if it's the stud behind it that's bowing so it might not even have any way to fix it back further.

Just wondered it anyone had any ideas/suggestions?
Many thanks!

 

[eribaMotters]

First step would be pack the hinges out 1 mm, so you have 3mm each side as opposed to 2mm and 4mm.
Next idea is a strip of 38 x 3 or 4 mm planted onto the hinge side of the door lining then a touch of re-shooting in the door.

Colin

 

[mikej460]

If you cannot alter the linings to bridge the gap you could re-run the architrave to cover the gaps or pack out the hinges with some cardboard set into the rebate (this assumes you have a tighter gap on the hinge side). If it were me I'd bite the bullet, bin the template and chop out the linings and modify them for each door, which is effectively what you are proposing for the tight fitting one. I had to do this on an oak liner set into a stone wall. I just wasn't happy with it so chopped it all out and re-installed it.

 

[shorn]

First step would be pack the hinges out 1 mm, so you have 3mm each side as opposed to 2mm and 4mm.
Next idea is a strip of 38 x 3 or 4 mm planted onto the hinge side of the door lining then a touch of re-shooting in the door.

Colin

Might not have been clear. The gap on the latch side is 4mm too big, therefore it’s around 6mm, so packing hinges out is only going to bring it to 3mm vs 5mm, which is better, but still not fixing it.

Hadn’t thought of putting the strip on the hinge side. I have 36mm x 4mm strip wood that I thought I could glue to the latch side. Doors are 35mm thick so would just need a mm planing off to keep it in line with the face of the lining. By the time it’s sanded and painted, I don’t think you’d ever know it was there.

 

[shorn]

If you cannot alter the linings to bridge the gap you could re-run the architrave to cover the gaps or pack out the hinges with some cardboard set into the rebate (this assumes you have a tighter gap on the hinge side). If it were me I'd bite the bullet, bin the template and chop out the linings and modify them for each door, which is effectively what you are proposing for the tight fitting one. I had to do this on an oak liner set into a stone wall. I just wasn't happy with it so chopped it all out and re-installed it.

Aiming to fix the lining rather than cover with architrave. Last resort I guess I could unscrew all the lining, remove and then reduce the width slightly.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The idea of putting a strip down the hinge side where the gaps are too wide seems very sensible. Glued and painted the addition will be almost indetectable.

If the door is too wide, why not simply trim the door - I thought this was normal practice.

 

[Doug71]

If you can live with a 4mm gap at each side go with that (I have seen much worse), if it's going to bug you remove the lining and re fit it.

Regarding the tight one is the photo showing it hung or just pushed in place with no gap down the hinge side? You could just plane a couple of mill off the door to make it fit the opening/so the gap is parallel, not ideal but quite normal when fitting doors in older properties.

 

[shorn]

The idea of putting a strip down the hinge side where the gaps are too wide seems very sensible. Glued and painted the addition will be almost indetectable.

If the door is too wide, why not simply trim the door - I thought this was normal practice.

Seems like the easiest route, although I’m curious as to why the suggest seems to be hinge side rather than latch side?

I know normally the doors are shot into the linings, but these are new linings and no architraves/handles on yet, so feel it would be better to true up the lining to the door which is square.

If you can live with a 4mm gap at each side go with that (I have seen much worse), if it's going to bug you remove the lining and re fit it.

Regarding the tight one is the photo showing it hung or just pushed in place with no gap down the hinge side? You could just plane a couple of mill off the door to make it fit the opening/so the gap is parallel, not ideal but quite normal when fitting doors in older properties.

As much as I know it’ll make life easier, I think it’ll bug me. This is the best time I’ll ever have to correct it, so feels like it’s worth that extra effort now.

 

[Doug71]

You would put the lath on the hinge side as less chance of you noticing it at that side. If you do put a lath on the hinge side of lining your 36mm one will be fine without trimming as you want a small gap between the back of the door and the stop lath on the hinge side.

Anyway don't know why I'm typing this as I reckon you will be taking the linings out and starting again

 

[owen]

In future just use spirit levels and a tape measure to set the linings. The trouble you're going to have is even if you pack the hinge side out, the latch side of the lining is still going to be uneven. I would take the linings out, cut them down and refit. It's the only way you're going to be happy with it.

 

[hlvd]

You’ve made the linings too wide, you’ve not factored in your ability to fit the lining parallel, free of twist, plumb and the header level( it’s harder than you think). It leaves you no fitting space with the door.

I’d always prefer a slightly tight lining/frame so I can plane a tight gap between the door and lining as even a 2mm gap with a slight chamfer will look pretty big once fitted.

You can pack out the hinge side by placing cardboard in the hinge slots, and the lock side by wedging between back of lining and stud.

Did you use a plane to fit these doors? A remedy for that bowed lining is to plane the door edge to form a parallel gap, it’s how doors are hung.

 

[shorn]

To be fair to myself, these are the first doors I’ve hung. Wanted to give it a go and thought making up a template would have been the best way.

I think there’s been some movement and although my template was fine, it was made up before the doors were delivered, so was kind of doing it a bit blind. I got it fixed between the studs, but clearly the lining has shifted since the template was removed. (Down to me).

The doors haven’t been trimmed at all yet, other than height. I get that the door is normally planed to match the lining, but feels odd to adapt the door rather than fix the lining. Especially at this stage as no architraves are on and I’ve still got access to the fixings in the lining.

 

[shorn]

it’s harder than you think)

That’s for sure

 

[hlvd]

To be fair to myself, these are the first doors I’ve hung. Wanted to give it a go and thought making up a template would have been the best way.

I think there’s been some movement and although my template was fine, it was made up before the doors were delivered, so was kind of doing it a bit blind. I got it fixed between the studs, but clearly the lining has shifted since the template was removed. (Down to me).

View attachment 149989

The doors haven’t been trimmed at all yet, other than height. I get that the door is normally planed to match the lining, but feels odd to adapt the door rather than fix the lining. Especially at this stage as no architraves are on and I’ve still got access to the fixings in the lining.

The reason you plane the door to suit is that it’s really difficult getting that lining correct, and almost impossible not to if you want that aesthetically pleasing parallel gap.
And believe it or not, the lining could be all manner of shapes, but as long as that gap’s planed parallel you won’t notice it.

You also need to plane a lead on the lock side(and hinge side really), if you don’t you’ll need to leave a huge gap to accommodate the door’s trailing edge passing the lining’s edge.

 

[Jacob]

To be fair to myself, these are the first doors I’ve hung. Wanted to give it a go and thought making up a template would have been the best way......

Not much help - but doing one at a time would have been better as there is a learning curve and making a door a good fit is a bit of a fine art.
Sometimes have to trim all four edges one way or another.
Block plane, paring chisel essential! And two bradawls - you can hang a door on a bradawl or two while you fiddle about, popping screws in etc.
PS and a collection of wedges.

 

[shorn]

The reason you plane the door to suit is that it’s really difficult getting that lining correct, and almost impossible not to if you want that aesthetically pleasing parallel gap.

Well that makes sense. I'm actually not too far off being parallel, it's more just latch side being too big. Hinge side and top and all pretty good, certainly enough that I'm happy with. I know my limitations and I'm not expecting a dead on 2mm all round, just need to get to a place I'm happy with.
I've made my peace with removing the lining where the gaps are too large, trimming the head down to lose the extra width at the top, refitting the hinge side and head back in where they were and then wedging the latch side to close it all the way down.

I think there's a good chance I can get to a 2/3mm gap all around with minimal variation.

but doing one at a time would have been better as there is a learning curve and making a door a good fit is a bit of a fine art.

Yes, I'm finding that now. In hindsight, I think I would have left the linings out and fitted them with the doors. However I'm sure that would have brought additional headaches with where the new plaster finishes, so swings and roundabouts really.

 

[HOJ]

On new work I never need to touch the door other than for fitting the hinges/hardware and hanging, last thing I want to do is lug doors in and out, maybe on pre existing linings if you cant adjust them.

Don't know how you set up your stud work but its best to leave a margin gap (5-10mm) all round the structural opening, then the lining can be packed/wedged & fixed to fit, time spent on this will mean you have no need to cut or shoot the door in, even in the height, set the door lining head to allow for floor finishes + a margin for clearances.

 

[Tgra85]

Hi,
Following from my thread about replacing door linings, I've now got round to fitting the doors. I had seven in total and I've had mixed results in fitting, but I'm hoping they are all things that I can rectify.
So out of the seven doors, 5 are 686mm wide, one 610mm and one 533mm wide.

For the five 686mm doors, I made up a template/former that was ~690mm wide and used this to set the linings.
When I've come to swing the doors, two are fine, but the other three are not. two of them have a larger gap on the latch side and one is too tight.

Not quite sure how it's ended up that way but here I am. So just looking for suggestions on the best way to rectify.
For the doors where the gap is too large. It's roughly about 4mm too wide on the latch side.

Here's some photos to demo...

View attachment 149969

View attachment 149970
So thinking about the best way to deal with it. Obviously I could try and wedge the lining out, but that;s going to be more difficult now that it's plastered and I can;t wedge out the top where its joined to the head. Alternatively, I could glue and pin a 4mm thick strip between the face and door stop to close the gap. Not really heard of that being done though. All linings and architraves are being painted to wouldn't really be able to tell.


For the one that's too tight. It's clear that there is a slight bow in the middle of the lining. The top and bottom gap is correct.
Would this just be a case of planing the centre of the lining down, or would it be better to try and screw the lining back further? Obviously this would involve chopping away the plaster that butts up to the lining. I'm also not sure if it's the stud behind it that's bowing so it might not even have any way to fix it back further.

View attachment 149971

Just wondered it anyone had any ideas/suggestions?
Many thanks!

Easy fix is to cut wedges and drive in behind the liner at the hinges, this will force the door over to where you need. Cut off and arc over.
I’m a house basher by trade, even getting liners in perfectly doesn’t account for twist on the leg of the liner.

 

[Tgra85]

Hi,
Following from my thread about replacing door linings, I've now got round to fitting the doors. I had seven in total and I've had mixed results in fitting, but I'm hoping they are all things that I can rectify.
So out of the seven doors, 5 are 686mm wide, one 610mm and one 533mm wide.

For the five 686mm doors, I made up a template/former that was ~690mm wide and used this to set the linings.
When I've come to swing the doors, two are fine, but the other three are not. two of them have a larger gap on the latch side and one is too tight.

Not quite sure how it's ended up that way but here I am. So just looking for suggestions on the best way to rectify.
For the doors where the gap is too large. It's roughly about 4mm too wide on the latch side.

Here's some photos to demo...

View attachment 149969

View attachment 149970
So thinking about the best way to deal with it. Obviously I could try and wedge the lining out, but that;s going to be more difficult now that it's plastered and I can;t wedge out the top where its joined to the head. Alternatively, I could glue and pin a 4mm thick strip between the face and door stop to close the gap. Not really heard of that being done though. All linings and architraves are being painted to wouldn't really be able to tell.


For the one that's too tight. It's clear that there is a slight bow in the middle of the lining. The top and bottom gap is correct.
Would this just be a case of planing the centre of the lining down, or would it be better to try and screw the lining back further? Obviously this would involve chopping away the plaster that butts up to the lining. I'm also not sure if it's the stud behind it that's bowing so it might not even have any way to fix it back further.

View attachment 149971

Just wondered it anyone had any ideas/suggestions?
Many thanks!

As for being tight in the middle, run a plane through and check.
Gluing a grounds onto anything Is a sure fire lead up to cracking in paintwork due to expansion/contraction and the swing/closing action of door.

 

[rafezetter]

It's a flippant answer for those thinking of doing this in the future but still true - a 6ft long, spirit level (checked to be straight you would be surprised how many are not), packers and lots of checking.

Use more screws if you have to, to pull any twist out of the lining sides (has happened to me several times) as 99% of lining kits are made from cheap crap wood - putting screws closer to the edges of the lining kit instead of just down the middle like almost every bodger does, this will help to keep it flat once the wood starts to acclimiatise - screws just down the middle allow it to cup more, so you'll find when you fit it - the door swings just fine, but 2 days later..... the door is catching as the lining kit edges have cupped because when they assemble the lining kits they never check the grain direction so any cup goes towards the wall.

Lining kits properly installed [my version not industry stadard] should have AT LEAST FIVE pairs of screws in each side - not a meagre "three down the middle" that I see most of the time. Five pairs ensures you can hang any door you want, including a hardwood glazed door without twisting the lining kit and that the lining kit will behave during extreme humidity and temp variations in the future.

Sadly it's actually pretty rare that I come across a door where the linig kit has been installed without a several mm difference top to bottom. It should be standard practice to put battens on the lining kit to hold the frame parallel in the middle and bottom.

When I fit a lining kit - I don't even have to touch the door bought for that hole.