Fire door regulations on victorian properties

[Graham Orm]

Just remembered the reason given for no intumescent strips, it doesn't allow the smoke to trigger fire alarms, so if the alarm in the fire zone is faulty you fry.

 

[chuggy]

I've just checked re loft conversions which is where I did most of my fire reg work. There is no mention at all of intumescent strips (there wouldn't be if not required), also fire doors required 20 min fire protection, not 30 min as it was when I was doing them!!

FD20 no longer exists

 

[Graham Orm]

I've just checked re loft conversions which is where I did most of my fire reg work. There is no mention at all of intumescent strips (there wouldn't be if not required), also fire doors required 20 min fire protection, not 30 min as it was when I was doing them!!

FD20 no longer exists

It's a new one on me, just looked it up on the regs portal of Stockport.

 

[chuggy]

I've just checked re loft conversions which is where I did most of my fire reg work. There is no mention at all of intumescent strips (there wouldn't be if not required), also fire doors required 20 min fire protection, not 30 min as it was when I was doing them!!

FD20 no longer exists

It's a new one on me, just looked it up on the regs portal of Stockport.

http://www.bwfcertifire.org.uk/knowledg ... fire-doors

http://www.bwfcertifire.org.uk/knowledg ... oor-frames

BWF Fire Fact Cards - FD20 and FD30 Fire Doors Explained.pdf

 

[Graham Orm]

http://www.bwfcertifire.org.uk/knowledg ... fire-doors

http://www.bwfcertifire.org.uk/knowledg ... oor-frames

BWF Fire Fact Cards - FD20 and FD30 Fire Doors Explained.pdf

I'm not a great fan of these organisations, they are leeches on the industry. They pop up in every branch of the building industry. There's no obvious reason to join them other than to carry their 'badge' on your paperwork.

The simplest way to clarify things is invite the building inspector along.

 

[chuggy]

I wasn't suggesting you join, I was merely using their website information as a short-cut to understanding the regulations.

Unfortunately many building inspectors are not fully up to date with current standards.

The lack of knowledge regarding fire safety is frightening.

An earlier poster suggested a bodge. He advocated a short-cut to get jobs signed off. He condoned bad practice and showed an extraordinary ignorance of the regulations and consequences of such an admission on a public forum.

I hope my grand children are not sleeping in one of his 'conversions'.

Indeed, if he has any conscience, he should be re-visiting all his past work and correcting his errors.

 

[Graham Orm]

Fire reg stops are thicker

Not correct. During a fire-test a stop is not (theoretically) even required ! The stop is on the non-fire side of the door. The intumescent seal prevents the fire reaching the stop.

Remember, a fire-door alone does not make a fire door-set.

The idea that stops had to be thicker and/or made from hardwood stems from 1970/80's regs which have now been superseded.

Colin, I have read back and believe that the poster was simply describing how to improve the look of a flat fire door. That of course doesn't mean there are not rules and regs flaunted. My understanding is that the intumescent strip was to stop smoke entering the escape route??

 

[chuggy]

Delighted you are asking these questions. You never know, we might save a life.

An intumescent seal expands and prevents the passage of flame. A smoke seal expands and prevents the passage of smoke.

You might see two seals on a frame.

If they appear the same they are probably both intumescent and the door-set is an FD60 (check the door rating).

If they are different, one is an intumescent and the other is a smoke seal and the set is an FD30 (check the door rating).

Combined seals are available.

What is important is that the seal used is recommended by the door-leaf manufacturer and that the hanging tolerances are strictly adhered to - 3mm top and sides.

What's more, the building inspector has a duty to measure the hanging tolerance !!

Have you ever seen that happen ?

 

[Graham Orm]

No of course not. A quick look over usually, I don't need to ask Colin by the way and wasn't, I've been in the job for over 30 years and fitted more fire doors than I'd care to remember. The spec changes continually and from area to area, so the safest way in my reckoning is to get the job signed off by the building inspector, then we know it's right. What exactly do you do to be such an up to the minute mine of knowledge?

 

[RossJarvis]

Hmm. Thinking about this and the fitting of an external victorian door I did recently, I'm rather hoping an external door is not a fire door, subject to myriad regulations?

 

[Graham Orm]

Hmm. Thinking about this and the fitting of an external victorian door I did recently, I'm rather hoping an external door is not a fire door, subject to myriad regulations?

No, Fire doors are to protect escape routes within the building and hold back the fire.

 

[markturner]

Colin, a lot of what you are saying is simply not true. We refurbish at least 15 or 20 houses every year in central London. Our building inspector ( We use London Building control Ltd) Does not require intumescent strips and closures. He does require the door to be FD30 rated and the stops to be minimum 20mm thick, plus 3mm gaps and hung properly. Apart from that, he is happy.

Grayorm is correct, ask your local building inspector. We use a private company, they are generally much more responsive and happier to advise than the local authority inspectors.

What's your position of expertise in this field?

 

[chuggy]

He might be happy, but he is out of touch with the regulations and putting lives at risk.

 

[Graham Orm]

What do you do to be so knowledgeable Colin?

 

[Graham Orm]

Unfortunately many building inspectors are not fully up to date with current standards.

The lack of knowledge regarding fire safety is frightening.

I missed this the first time I read it............I was under the impression that the building inspectors set the current standards. :roll: