Fire door regulations on victorian properties

[kristhejoiner]

hi everyone,

I have been asked to convert some doors into fire doors on a property that has been converted into flats. The property was built in 1852, the doors are victorian looking with four panels.
I am aware that the doors will need new fire regulation hinges and intumescent strips will have to be routed into either the door or frame (id chose the door as i find it easier.)

Im unsure of what else i would need to do, i.e to the panels and also the gaps at the bottom of the door are fairly big.
Does anyone have any experience of this kind of work? or know where i would find the answers?
i have googled it and got on the uk fire regs website but it was kind of like finding a needle in a hay stack.

cheers for any replys.

kris

 

[Baldhead]

hi everyone,

I have been asked to convert some doors into fire doors on a property that has been converted into flats. The property was built in 1852, the doors are victorian looking with four panels.
I am aware that the doors will need new fire regulation hinges and intumescent strips will have to be routed into either the door or frame (id chose the door as i find it easier.)

Im unsure of what else i would need to do, i.e to the panels and also the gaps at the bottom of the door are fairly big.
Does anyone have any experience of this kind of work? or know where i would find the answers?
i have googled it and got on the uk fire regs website but it was kind of like finding a needle in a hay stack.

cheers for any replys.

kris

Get the number for the local fire station and ask to speak to a fire prevention officer.

Baldhead

 

[Graham Orm]

Local building regs will tell you. I think you'll find you have to change the doors to 40mm thick half hour fire doors. You can get them in 35mm which saves routing the frame rebate deeper.

 

[blackrodd]

I would say that the building regulations department at you're local council offices should be the best step.
All the regulations are constantly changing, Sizes of frames or linings also door stops etc.
Was there a nominated architect involved in the planning aspect?
The fire regs, and all others should be covered by him.
Regards Raodders

 

[Graham Orm]

PS There is a way to convert period doors into fire doors by thickening the panels and fire treating the rest of the door. I've never done it, I believe it's expensive to get them treated and obviously labour intensive.

 

[tomatwark]

When I was asked this question a few years ago, I was told that any design you come up with to alter them will have to be tested to make sure it gives you the fire rating needed.

Tom

 

[Graham Orm]

When I was asked this question a few years ago, I was told that any design you come up with to alter them will have to be tested to make sure it gives you the fire rating needed.

Tom

It's a while ago Tom, but I seem to remember that there was a set thickness for the panels and a treatment that's used in stately home type properties where the public trundle through and fire is a huge danger. I'm sure the inspector said that this would be acceptable if we used a specific treatment. We didn't in the end.

 

[Jacob]

You either replace the doors with rated firedoors and installation, or treat existing (if possible) with the help of Envirograf or similar. Either way it's a question of meeting a specification.

 

[rafezetter]

Just a suggestion, but a while back I took a simple plain flat 1 hr fire door and added some picture mouldings to make it look like a 6 panel door, It wasn't period authentic, but was an improvement to the plain door.

 

[markturner]

Quickest and easiest to buy new FD30 doors, and fit bigger stops, than to muck around trying to upgrade the existing. Doors cost approx £50 from magnet etc.........You wont need intumescent strips or closures.

 

[Graham Orm]

Quickest and easiest to buy new FD30 doors, and fit bigger stops, than to muck around trying to upgrade the existing. Doors cost approx £50 from magnet etc.........You wont need intumescent strips or closures.

I think he's in a period property so has a problem with replacing them.

May have to replace casings too.

 

[markturner]

A problem if its indeed arequirement to retain the original eatures, however we refurbish many victorian houses and often have to upgrade doors. Magnet do some nice 4 & 6 panel doors that look very nice. Plus they have that nice heavy feel and shut solidly. Where we have had to keep the original doors, it can be done, by adding thickness etc, buts its very labour intensive and thus expensive......,

 

[chuggy]

Quickest and easiest to buy new FD30 doors, and fit bigger stops, than to muck around trying to upgrade the existing. Doors cost approx £50 from magnet etc.........You wont need intumescent strips or closures.

Why thicker stops ?

 

[MMUK]

Quickest and easiest to buy new FD30 doors, and fit bigger stops, than to muck around trying to upgrade the existing. Doors cost approx £50 from magnet etc.........You wont need intumescent strips or closures.

Why thicker stops ?

Fire reg stops are thicker

 

[Graham Orm]

Quickest way to sort the spec is to get the local building inspector down. He won't charge and will tell you exactly what the requirements are.

 

[chuggy]

Quickest and easiest to buy new FD30 doors, and fit bigger stops, than to muck around trying to upgrade the existing. Doors cost approx £50 from magnet etc.........You wont need intumescent strips or closures.

Why thicker stops ?

Fire reg stops are thicker

Not correct. During a fire-test a stop is not (theoretically) even required ! The stop is on the non-fire side of the door. The intumescent seal prevents the fire reaching the stop.

Remember, a fire-door alone does not make a fire door-set.

The idea that stops had to be thicker and/or made from hardwood stems from 1970/80's regs which have now been superseded.

 

[Graham Orm]

Not correct. During a fire-test a stop is not (theoretically) even required ! The stop is on the non-fire side of the door. The intumescent seal prevents the fire reaching the stop.

Remember, a fire-door alone does not make a fire door-set.

The idea that stops had to be thicker and/or made from hardwood stems from 1970/80's regs which have now been superseded.

Intumescent strips are no longer required in Stockport!!! Work that one out!! According to the last job i did with a fire door anyway, straight from the building inspector's mouth.

 

[chuggy]

Not correct. During a fire-test a stop is not (theoretically) even required ! The stop is on the non-fire side of the door. The intumescent seal prevents the fire reaching the stop.

Remember, a fire-door alone does not make a fire door-set.

The idea that stops had to be thicker and/or made from hardwood stems from 1970/80's regs which have now been superseded.

Intumescent strips are no longer required in Stockport!!! Work that one out!! According to the last job i did with a fire door anyway, straight from the building inspector's mouth.

In that case, the door-set will certainly not reach FD30 requirements and lives will be put at risk.

 

[Graham Orm]

Not correct. During a fire-test a stop is not (theoretically) even required ! The stop is on the non-fire side of the door. The intumescent seal prevents the fire reaching the stop.

Remember, a fire-door alone does not make a fire door-set.

The idea that stops had to be thicker and/or made from hardwood stems from 1970/80's regs which have now been superseded.

Intumescent strips are no longer required in Stockport!!! Work that one out!! According to the last job i did with a fire door anyway, straight from the building inspector's mouth.

In that case, the door-set will certainly not reach FD30 requirements and lives will be put at risk.

I think it varies greatly from area to area Colin. The door casings/stops HAVE to be beefed up in my area.

 

[Graham Orm]

I've just checked re loft conversions which is where I did most of my fire reg work. There is no mention at all of intumescent strips (there wouldn't be if not required), also fire doors required 20 min fire protection, not 30 min as it was when I was doing them!!