finding a router bit to replicate t & g on damaged ends?

[matt1098s]

Apologies for posting what might seem like a v basic question. I am currently undertaking to completely replace my upstairs floorboards with reclaimed oak strip t & g boards. Unfortunately alot of the ends are damaged and therefore Im looking to chop those off and re-do the t&g on those ends. A friend will lend me his router and table but having had a surf I cant see any router bits that would do the job. I should add that Ive never used a router before and so plse go easy on any technical info

The wood I have is 20mm thick. The top section before the tongue is 8mm then the tongue is 7mm thick, before the bottom section which is 5mm thick. Can anyone help re where I could but a router bit set that would accurately replicate this. It needs to be exactly those measurements so as to match the other existing sections.

Thanks v much for any help. If the rules dont allow posting a link to a co that would be able to help then a PM would be fantastic. Thanks guys

 

[JonnyD]

You could do it with something like this which would be able to be adjusted to your dimensions.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... rc=froogle

It is quite expensive and for best results will need to be used in a router table rather than freehand.

Jon

 

[matt1098s]

Thanks for the reply

I have just re-ckecked my measurements and they are slightly out. Th wood is 19mm thick: the top section is 8mm, the tongue 6mm, the bottom section 5mm.

 

[WellsWood]

Hi Matt, and welcome to the forum.

Personally I think you'll be making yourself a lot of hard work for no reward. The T&G joint on the ends of the boards isn't really of any great consequence, unless you're planning on having the joints flapping in mid-air, and even then it's usefulness is highly debatable as is the advisability of laying this way. Wood doesn't move appreciably in length, only in width (across the grain), so there won't be an issue with gaps appearing.
Chop the ends off, place your joints over the joists (which is the traditional and "proper" way anyway) and walk away from a completed job in a fraction of the time.

 

[9fingers]

If you are willing to do this will multiple passes/settings on the router table, then a grooving cutter of 7mm (or less) set at various heights above the router table will do the job.
Make sure the router has a 1/2" collet and variable speed as the max speed of the groover may well be below the max speed of the router.

I would screw a false fence on the router fence for each height setting and allow the cutter to protude through this to maximise the support to the workpiece.
Like JonnyD has done in this Pic (hope you don't mind me ripping your pic Jon!!)

You will almost certainly get some chip-out as the cutter exits the workpiece. So take a piece of scrap T&G and fit it into the workpiece on the exit side and this will minimise the problem. You can use this over and over again - one piece for each height setting.

Hope this helps.

Grooving cutters can be bought from Axminster or my favourite supplier Wealden.

Bob

 

[matt1098s]

Thanks for the reply Mark. Im not fixed in my mind but the reason why Im currently considering this is in order to reduce wastage as if I cut each piece to end on a joist that wastage will probably go up quite a bit. Also if I end on a joist I will only have an inch to nail the two ends and I want to avoid face-nailing other than at the beginning and end of each room.Im not sure whether trying to porta-nail each end piece on a joist might result in the wood splitting and then Ill be stuck with face nailing/screwing.

However Ive got to weigh this up vs how difficult it will be to use a router to do new t&g's. If this is something only for the skilled then it would be good to understand that now.Ive never used a router before so would probably struggle in which case I ll go back to ending each cut piece on a joist

 

[Shultzy]

Matt, I don't know how long your wood is but anything over three feet (1 mtr) will be difficult to support on a router table when working on end grain. I would lay them in a line, clamp a straight edge (mdf) on and rout freehand; then reverse and repeat.

 

[RogerS]

Matt, first of all welcome to the forum.

I'd strongly advise against trying to do this with a router especially as it is your first attempt. The possibilities for injury either to yourself or the wood are high.

Ideally, as has been said, you join the planks on a joist. Assuming that your boards are T&G down their length then there really is no need IMO to worry about fixing the two ends as they will be held in place by the t&g of the adjacent boards. Never a good idea to have the joints all in a line so you should therefore end up with your joints nicely straddled and secure.

If you do want to fix them then you could consider drilling them first with one of these and one of these to cut the plugs to go in the holes after you've screwed the ends down.

It's worth getting some spare 7/64" drill bits to go with the screwdigger as they do have a tendency to break.

Or you could think about using biscuits into the ends.

You definitely need something to support the ends if the joins are going to be floating between joists.

 

[MickCheese]

Wickes do a biscuit jointer for less than £40.

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Contractor-Tool ... nvt/186885

Just remember the blade is 3.5mm not the usual 4mm so get the biscuits from there too.

Good luck.

Mick

 

[RogerS]

Matt..forgot to say that if your boards are relatively narrow (4" say) then they can float between joists but not ideal. The wider the board the more noticeable is the flexion when walked on.

 

[Grinding One]

I am really surprised at you guys saying safety all of the time....This job should be done a a table with a three horse power router(safely)free handing a 3 hp router is very dangerous.I have done this job and I used a table ,it is safely done this way and my boards were different lenghts.It all turned well this way.Trying to use a smaller router and you will burn it up in no time...I like my tools and try not to abused them.

 

[matt1098s]

Thanks v much for the rreally helpful replies guys. Im going off the idea of the router as it seems this might be too time consuming and probably a bit too technical for someone with no experience of using this tool. The biscuit joiner looks like a good compromise maybe. Ive never used one but it looks quite straightforward. The boards are only 2 1/4 wide so will it be poss to buy square edged biscuits to suit or would I have to cut them down to size?

Can you get different blades to make the grooves say 5mm with the corresponding biscuits? It doesn't seem worth it unless the thickness is going to be such as to really add to the strength?

On the face nailing front- thanks very much for the link re the screwdiggers. I was going to try some experimenting to see which of these two would give the best results on light oak:
1) oak coloured putty
2) mixing up sawdust with glue and filling the hole ready for sanding later.

Would the screwdigger give an even more invisible finish? I have seen wood plugs before and thought that they were actually quite obvious so Im not sure. Maybe though those were just badly finished.

I guess I could always use square nails to face nail and that way get away with a much smaller hole but Ive laways thought screwing floors (and then counter-sinking) was a better option to avoid squeaking floorboards. Is this correct?

When sanded I will use Osmo hardwax oil to finish the floors.

 

[RogerS]

G1..fair point but the guy did say he'd never used a router before!

Matt...putty will look horrible IMO. Likewise sawdust..I've tried this several times and always end up with a grainy grotty result. The plugs are the best way forward IMO. If you choose areas of the wood from where you take your plugs to match reasonably closely the same colour as the plank you're filling in and that you align the grain in the similar direction then the result is pretty good.

To cut off the plugs there are several ways to do it. Chisel. Skew plane. Zero kerf Japanese saw. Sander. Or any combination of the above.

 

[matt1098s]

thanks Roger

 

[JonnyD]

Another option for joining the ends would be this

http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/B ... 8%29_.html

You can do the joints with a normal drill and would be stronger than a biscuited joint. I have never used one so cant comment on how good they are but most trend stuff is pretty good.

Jon

 

[WellsWood]

I guess I could always use square nails to face nail and that way get away with a much smaller hole but Ive laways thought screwing floors (and then counter-sinking) was a better option to avoid squeaking floorboards. Is this correct?

I've put down most of the floors in my house and the only squeaky one is the bathroom - reclaimed T&G maple strip, screwed down!

IMO 65mm is too narrow to safely use a biscuit jointer on, but I suppose you could jig it up if you really were adamant about going that route.

Again, I think you're making this much more complicated and labour intensive than it needs to be. Wastage in flooring is a fact of life, accept it, allow for it, and move on. Attempting any method of re-engineering the T&G on the board ends in order to miss the joists with the joints a pointless exercise in bad practice. It is also almost certain to be frustrating, extremeley time consuming, and if you're a novice with any of the equipment downright bloody dangerous.

As far as fixing methods go - nail it down with one of these if you really don't want any evidence showing. Otherwise face nail it, punch the nails down and fill before sealing. And yes, you can use sawdust mixed with glue (as long as you don't intend to stain the floor prior to finishing) you just need to be aware that not all glue/wood combinations work - so experiment first to check the resulting colour.

As for screwing it down and then cutting wooden plugs to conceal the tops, well what can I say, if you're the sort of person who likes to get up early at the weekend and cut the lawn with the kitchen scissors....
:roll: I mean, really, have you stopped to consider just how many plugs that is in an average sized room? My living room is about 25' x 12', with 6" wide boards, joists at about 14" centres and 2 nails per board per joist it comes out at over 450 nails :shock: I don't know about you but my life's too short to even think about doing that with screws and plugs. Don't forget, you need a pillar drill to get a decent result from a plug cutter anyway.

 

[Jake]

Strip flooring is designed to be used on a substrate, not direct on joists. Whack down down ply or osb and away you go. The t&g is just two rebates, one on each side.

 

[Grinding One]

Another option for joining the ends would be this

http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/B ... 8%29_.html

You can do the joints with a normal drill and would be stronger than a biscuited joint. I have never used one so cant comment on how good they are but most trend stuff is pretty good.

Jon

This would be expensive I think....Why hot a spline joint instead??

 

[RogerS]

.....
IMO 65mm is too narrow to safely use a biscuit jointer on, but I suppose you could jig it up if you really were adamant about going that route.

Not sure I agree with that. Doesn't really matter how wide the boards are..just keep your fingers out of the way.

Again, I think you're making this much more complicated and labour intensive than it needs to be. Wastage in flooring is a fact of life, accept it, allow for it, and move on. Attempting any method of re-engineering the T&G on the board ends in order to miss the joists with the joints a pointless exercise in bad practice. It is also almost certain to be frustrating, extremeley time consuming, and if you're a novice with any of the equipment downright bloody dangerous.

But doesn't this depend on the availability of floorboards? If you're laying down new then I agree but if he is trying to relay the existing boards then not necessarily so as he needs to join where he must.

As for screwing it down and then cutting wooden plugs to conceal the tops, well what can I say, if you're the sort of person who likes to get up early at the weekend and cut the lawn with the kitchen scissors....
:roll: I mean, really, have you stopped to consider just how many plugs that is in an average sized room? My living room is about 25' x 12', with 6" wide boards, joists at about 14" centres and 2 nails per board per joist it comes out at over 450 nails :shock: I don't know about you but my life's too short to even think about doing that with screws and plugs. Don't forget, you need a pillar drill to get a decent result from a plug cutter anyway.

No-one is suggesting that he does it for every join. In fact, he probably doesn't need to do it at all. If you use the Veritas cutter then you don't need a vertical drill at all as the top of the plug is actually at the break in the wood..if you get my drift. They go in upside down.

 

[RogerS]

Strip flooring is designed to be used on a substrate, not direct on joists. Whack down down ply or osb and away you go. The t&g is just two rebates, one on each side.

How's he going to sort out the change in floor level and sneak the boards under his skirting boards?