Festool saw with 3rd party track

[Lefley]

Buy all the same tracks. You have to adjust your saw a bit to stay tight in each brand of track. If you use all the same track you only have to do it once. If you have a 4 foot festool and a 8 foot Makita track you will have to fine tune your saw base each time you use each track. Gets old really fast. So just buy all Makita tracks from the beginning.

 

[Spectric]

While the Mafell may be a superior bit of kit I am not sure that 3rd party accessories will be as readily available

What accessories do you have in mind, Benchdogs do rail squares and the quad MFT system along with there parallel guides so cannot think of what else you might want.

 

[Garden Shed Projects]

What accessories do you have in mind, Benchdogs do rail squares and the quad MFT system along with there parallel guides so cannot think of what else you might want.

I don't have anything in particular I just want to future proof it really. There just seems to be more available for the Festool or makita style tracks. The Mafell tracks are different with a 2-3mm blade running along its length where as the Festool/Makita style has a 10-12mm rib. Trying to keep my options open. I am making the assumption that the 3rd party tracks are more compatable with the Festool accessories. Otherwise the Festool track may be the way to go after all.

I currently have a timber bench and was considering adapting it with a permanant track fitted on a hinge along the lines of the one that Peter Millard made.

 

[Spectric]

I think you will find that people like Benchdogs support Bosch/Mafell as much as Makita/festool simply because they want to cover the entire market, the same with Fc tools so whatever you go for will be future proof and if it cuts sheets up to your satisfaction on day one then it will continue to do so even a decade later. Your biggest problem is avoiding being sucked in by Festool hype, unless dust extraction is the most important thing on your wish list then a Bosch/Mafell/Makita or Dewalt will all deliver, and don't forget the Festool is the lowest powered of the bunch.

I currently have a timber bench and was considering adapting it with a permanant track fitted on a hinge along the lines of the one that Peter Millard made.

or this is a nice item unless using rail square or parallel guides,

 

[fleyh]

avoiding being sucked in by Festool hype, unless dust extraction is the most important thing on your wish list

Hello @Spectric
I may have misunderstood your comment but it sounds like it implies that Festool track saw provides better dust collection than Mafell. Mafell (due to its construction) is certainly better than Festool at channelling more dust through the dust port (provided that dust extractor is connected and powered on).
Festool dust collection does not disappoint either, but just wanted to note that Mafell track saw is somewhat better in the dust department.

 

[fleyh]

Hello @Garden Shed Projects
I think Festool and Mafell/Bosh track/MFT accessories are close enough these days and the choice of track style is just a personal preference. Problem is - you won't know what your preference is until you had a chance to work with both styles.

A couple of anecdotes for you:
- Mr McGrath had switched from Bosch track to Festool because he could not get on with his Bosch track. Problems with the track type which John highlighted in that and this videos are non issues for me but they were significant enough for him.
- I switched from Festool style track to Bosch/Mafell track couple of years ago and I have not used Festool style track since. Every time I clamp a long but narrow stock (using awesome Bosch clamp) to the wonderful Bosch rail I remember how much more time I would have to invest to perform the same cut on Festool track ( in the absence of a table saw). On the other hand - if I had a full size MFT with all the accessories available to me all the time I might think differently.

On a side note - these days the choice is no longer just between Festool/Mafell/Makita/Dewalt - Milwaukee recently released their own version of a track saw (runs on Festool style track I think). Happy choosing

 

[Spectric]

but it sounds like it implies that Festool track saw provides better dust collection than Mafell

The dust extraction has always come across as the big bonus for festool, if Mafell is as good then really Mafell / Bosch becomes the obvious choice and if just wanting to cut sheet goods outside as you don't have room inside then Makita as it is a great saw but dusty and cuts sheets down as good as any of the others.

 

[ChrisWiduWood]

I own both Mafell and Festool, the reason being they are 110 volt and after changing the motor on the festool 2 times (10 years use) i went with the more powerfull mafell, this is a 110v problem only, the festool is underpowered especially going through a long lead/then dust extractor (site fitting problems)
In 240v this is no issue , they are both stunning saws.

Festool pro's - 3 years parts warranty and IN BUILT insurance . That is unmatched by any other brand.
Con's - 110v underpowered , track splinter guard come's off to easy and are expensive to replace

Mafell pro's- Better dust collection , better track and quicker blade change.
Con's - no theft cover

If your buying 240v then the new festool with thinner blade and theft cover is your best option hands down

Just 1 word of warning...
festool is a bug and it gets expensive..

Tracksaw £500
M class extractor £750
36mm hose £160
long life bag £ 120
Bluetooth £40
Hoover attachments £60........

 

[frankendoodle65]

Your biggest problem is avoiding being sucked in by Festool hype, unless dust extraction is the most important thing on your wish list then a Bosch/Mafell/Makita or Dewalt will all deliver, and don't forget the Festool is the lowest powered of the bunch.

I feel like you've got a bit of an axe to grind here as I've seen you speaking up against the "festool hype" a few times on this forum.
Which saws do you have hands on experience with? Dust extraction is only one of many differences we're looking at here. I'll try to be fair because my Makita tracksaw had issues with scorching that I've not heard from anyone else, but there's a fair few ergonomic differences between the festool and Makita that I've found since switching to a TS55. I can't speak for DeWalt, Bosch or any others because I have no experience with them.

Better on Makita:

1. Anti tip feature is helpful
2. Preset 22.5 degree chamfer is occasionally useful
3. Scoring cut feature is nice, saves a few seconds compared to changing the depth of cut twice for every cut in mfc.
4. More powerful motor (although I've yet to find anything the festool hasn't cut easily)

Better on Festool:

1. The way it snugs to the guide rail is far superior (the cams act on a plastic strip, so you've got a wider contact area against the rail),
2. Depth of cut adjustment is better - dual scale saves the need for any mental msths. Also a fine adjuster dial, useful for non through cuts.
3. Better dust collection (very important if you value your lungs)
4. Detachable power cable (debatable usefulness but I love it personally)
5. Quieter, probably due to the less powerful motor, but it's important when you have neighbours!

Personally I just enjoy using the festool more, it suits my hand and has an overall more premium feel, which you'd expect for the higher price. The Makita has a more rugged workmanlike feel, I'd certainly feel happier taking that to a building site for "rough" work, whereas the festool feels more like it belongs in a workshop.

Overall I'm glad I made the switch, I miss a few details from the Makita but overall I'd say the benefits of the festool outweigh that. It's not just about "festool hype" - anyone who's used a few of their tools will tell you they're expensive for good reason. I used to be one of those guys who said "I'll never buy festool, it's overpriced and cheaper tools do the same job!" - the domino was my gateway because it's a unique tool, and once you feel one of their tools in the hand and use it for a few hours you understand quite quickly where that extra money has gone.

 

[Spectric]

No one is going to deny that there is a lot of hype surrounding Festool and it is what gets them a following just like apple.

Which saws do you have hands on experience with?

Bosch, Makita, Dewalt and aeg over a long time period as well as some bad experiences with B&D.

Now if Festool was so much better and more advanced than anything else then companies like Bosch and Makita etc would not have such a huge market share, it always comes down to if the tool can do what is asked of it, value for the money and last is it for you so bearing in mind that for many decades people would cut sheets up with nothing more than a handsaw then really any tracksaw can do just that and so the field is already narrowed. For me I almost brought the Mafell, then considered the Bosch but finally went for the Makita having spoken with @JobandKnock who uses these everyday for a living.

Having spent a working life in engineering, mostly R&D then maybe I look at things from a very different angle but the only Festool tool I have brought is a 700 Domino and to date for me it is the worst and least useful tool I have brought, but for others it will be the total opposite, also for me the engineering is also not outstanding when compared to the likes of Woodpecker or Jessem so in this case it may be a unique tool, but cannot relate to your statement "and once you feel one of their tools in the hand and use it for a few hours you understand quite quickly where that extra money has gone." Now again if this was such a great tool that works out of the box, yes it does for many but requires that sloppy setting then there would be no need for aftermarket products from Woodpeckers, Fc tools and TSO so there is a problem for some, maybe the Domino bench will be my solution, the Fc tools alignment jig solved the problem on 18 & 22mm sheet goods so just maybe. I am still thinking that the 500 is the tool without the problems, it went wrong when scaled up.

 

[frankendoodle65]

There's a lot to unpack there @Spectric and it's clear you've made up your mind.
All I'm going to say is I bought the Makita off the back of similar comments/arguments/reviews thinking it was comparable to the festool, my experience is otherwise and I'd have been much happier spending the extra £100 in the first place. That's why I tried to be totally impartial in my previous comment, there are real differences between these tools, they're also engineered to a price so you've got to factor that in - arguably the Lidl tracksaw does the same job as the Festool or Makita so why don't we all save the money and go for Lidl?

Regarding the sloppy setting on the domino, I use my df500 without any aftermarket accessories, I've had no problems lining up a row of tight dominos just using a pencil line and a bit of care. However it's much quicker and easier to use the tight setting at either end and the "sloppy" setting in the middle, it's more than adequate for the sort of work the tool is designed for. I've no experience with the df700 so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Spectric]

I think there are bands, you have lidl, Erbuar and such in the lower band, Makita, Bosch and many others straddle the middle and upper bands depending what tool it is and then Mafell / Festool playing for top position but it all comes down to finding the right tool that suits you, if it suits you and you are happy then that is great as you have met your objective but there is also an elephant in the room. I have mentioned this in other post but many of us including myself do whether knowingly or not often seek to overcome our own skill issues by looking at tools hoping it solves an issue and I believe Festool plays on this one in that they think they can make anyone a woodworker just by supplying the right tools. Another example, chiesels and cutting hinge mortices which is really a basic job, I have done them with a chisel but often not happy with the finish and cannot get close to what my freind can achieve in less time, but then he has hung an awful lot of doors. I buy a Trend hinge jig and can now cut them as good as he can and almost as quick so here the tool has overcome my skills shortage. If you use a lot of sheet goods then I think you made the right choice with the 500, it weighs 7 pounds compared to 12 pounds for the 700 and is more manageable, what put me off the 500 was it only plunges to 28mm.

 

[deema]

Tools at different price points are often designed for different end users. The DIY tool may only gave a design life of a few hours where as contractor grade has say 5000hrs. Now, the quality of the parts between them probably isn’t much of a difference. Ie a slightly larger bearing is only a few penny’s more. But adding this up on say 30 components adds up.
You then get spoilage, or the returns you get because of idiots through the supply chain as well as the end user idiots. I had spoilage of circa 12% from a large automotive high street retailer which just went on the price!
With Festool the cost of Stolen goods replacement will be built into the price. It’s not free!
So a long winded way of saying that price as a rule of thumb in a good indicator of quality / design life.
Have a look on uTube at AVE tear down of the Festool track saw. Now, he’s an acquired taste as a presenter, but if you are technically minded you can see the build quality and decide yourself how well us screwed together. For he, I’d give the about a C rating.

 

[Spectric]

Now, he’s an acquired taste as a presenter

@deema I would say like marmite, he seems to be amazed about electronic commutation which is just so common in modern motor control circuits and for some reason has found some residual magnetism in a laminated rotor so that got him puzzled, why ! He had a point about the field windings not being dipped, normally they dip to ensure no movement between windings that could result in a short. Overall apart from a decent steel gear there was nothing jumping out as outstanding and just like all the other brands plenty of plastic.