jacob, again as others have said you are actually missing the point,
imho!
LV and LN are not sacred turf, they do however seem to be companies that actually care about producing items for a reason, not to milk the
poor old customer. as such their approach to customer care is something
worthy of note.
as has been pointed out before in this post, the reason B&Q, screwfix et
al exchange products is because it is part of the uk consumer protection legislation. it was changed some years ago so that the poor old retailer had to take the blame for flaws in the manufacturing process. technically now, if you buy something as a customer, not a trader, the shop is obliged
to replace if faulty, and then it is the business of the shop to negotiate with the manufacturer/wholesaler/importer over whose final responsibility it all is. however, if you are a trader, or buy from for instance makro,and i would guess cosco, you are not entitled to the same protection.
the whole relevance of this thread is that one specific manufacturer cares enough about their reputation in the wider world to offer a free replacement, without asking for the faulty goods to be returned.
this implies an understanding that the customers who take the trouble to complain sanely, politely and properly are likely to tell their friends,
and want to come back to buy.
in my recent experience of some of the older "so called established"
brand names, the management consultants and accountants have
taken the view that the customer is a mug, and can be fobbed off
with substandard products because there are enough new ones
to come along and buy the c**p.
when i was trained in the 60's and 70's jacob people like you were
called "journeymen" this was not an insult but an appreciation of
the skills they had and the ability to undertake specific kinds of
work. we had an apprentice scheme which allowed us to buy tools
at so much per week. at that time the best brands were not
made by vast multi nationals that moved production to increase
production profits without worrying about quality control.
what many people like you have failed to notice, or understand is
that for many manufacturers it is cheaper to discard waste products
than check it before it leaves the factory. so the so called quality marks
are not actually worth the cost of the stamp to imprint them on
the tools, because there is little or no quality control in the old fashioned
way any more, that would be too expensive.
i believe jacob that you are lucky, and my impression is that you
have most of your tools from your earlier days, so cannot see the
need to buy modern if they still work. maybe by now your chisels
have worn out, maybe not, but i guess you will think twice about
spending the extra pennies to be sure that the steel is proper
quality and the chisel does what it was designed to do.
you wonder about the flattening backs done by so many people these
days. i can tell you that after my father died, along with some of his
stone mason, letter cutting tools, were some woodworking tools
a back saw, and about 4 chisels. i was surprised to notice that
all the backs had been flattened, and polished, and he must have done
that over 40 years ago, without the benefit of DC's input.
i can state categorically as someone who has sharpened a number
of recently purchased, stanley and marples and record products
for other people the standard of steel finishing is appalling, and
the edge retention is rubbish. these are for people who abuse their
tools, but they do not expect chisels to be re-sharpened every
month, which is what has been happening. older and different brands
do in these conditions last longer.
except as a customer, and having been lucky enough to talk with
rob lee, and tln, as well as DC, i find it refreshing to talk with
the bosses of companies and discover that at the top level they
are interested in delivering proper products to the customer
at a "reasonable" price.
we each have our understanding of reasonable, and to me the
value of not having to fettle a plane is worth the extra, because
i value fettling time more highly than production time, since
it eats into my fun time.
like others here, i believe you have a lot to offer in terms of
certain kinds of information, but your continual bashing of
certain brands because you don't want to buy them is not productive.
in a world dominated by big brands that seem to care little for the
customer, or indeed the world in which we live, so called niche
manufacturers are valuable and their customer service is based on
the belief that they need happy customers to progress and grow.
rant over. i came on this forum to learn, and improve certain
latent skills, and i hope i have and am doing that, but i do worry that
the site becomes too american so that you cannot moan about something
without creating a "fire storm" of people who can't or won't take criticism
of either a brand or type of information. vide the recent posting in america about bill pentz and his work. :twisted:
finally mike w, now i am really confused, first you are out stealing
beer and pizzas from the bears in the woods, and then you stop
the chickens working, and now you are in pubs listening to all these
conversations. :?
what i want to know is where in the ****, do you find the time to
make the b****y saws you keep showing us :lol: :lol: :lol:
i look forward to some weeks in purdah :roll:
paul :wink:
