Extraction confusion

[Komri]

Hello everyone,

First time posting, but I've been reading for a while now, lots of interesting posts and very good projects.

I have a single garage sized workshop with an 8 inch Fox table saw, Trend router table with T11 router, mitre saw and cheap pillar drill and a lot of handheld power tools. I need to buy suitable dust extraction as my current Aldi ash vac until up to the task. I don't expect to buy a planner anytime soon. My planned projects are making loudspeakers and furniture, as such a lot of MDF and pine although I might do some hardwood projects later.

I've read a lot of the posts on here about dust and chip extraction including siggy_7's useful guide, but am still confused so hoping for some advice on what is best for my tools and plans to use MDF for speaker cabinets. I'm only occasionally hobby user so I can't justify spending loads on both a HPLV and LPHV systems. None of my kit has 100mm outlets, the saw is the outlet is 47mm and router table 57mm, so would a LPHV system work?

I've narrowed it down to 3 options, but open to other ideas:

Bosch GAS 35 M AFC
https://www.axminstertools.com/bosch-gas-35-m-afc-wet-dry-extractor-230v-503843Because its M class filter so suitable for MDF, not not sure if it's suitable for amount of waste from the router.

Axminster AC118CE Axminster Craft AC118CE Cyclone Dust Extractor
But it's very big and I'm not sure about its suitability to reduce down for handheld powertools. But I like the idea of a cyclone and therefore less dust getting to the filter.

Or Numatic NVD750
https://www.axminstertools.com/numatic-nvd750-workshop-vacuum-extractor-230v-702412
What would you recommend? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks Simon

 

[bp122]

Welcome to the forum.

It rather depends on your budget.

But barring that, particularly in your case, you need to worry about the filtration level as you are working with MDF, which is just about as nasty as it gets in terms of sawdust.

For MDF, ideally you need a HEPA grade filter, which I think filters down to 0.3 microns or smaller.

Most entry level HVLP extractors don't have this level of filtration on their stock filters and generally have to pay extra for a fine grade filter.

The NVD750, if I remember correctly, is over £500 and can be upgraded to HEPA grade with an add on filter (maybe another £200-300)

I don't work with MDF but I do have a HVLP extractor from Axi (AC82E) and a 1 micron filter. Plus I wear a Force 8 mask with replaceable filters.

Going the other way with the hplv extractors, most good ones are HEPA rated, even an old Dyson will do. But anyone you choose, hook it up to a cyclone otherwise you will soon be tried of unclogging your filters and emptying the bin.


Many ways to do it, but it all depends on your budget.

 

[DBT85]

For what you want an extractor (HVLP inflatable bag type) won't work (I say won't, they will, just not nearly as well as they want to), they don't have the suck to deal with small tool connections like HPLV.

You need a HPLV (high pressure low volume) vacuum like a camvac or the festool ctl things or that numatic/bosch you link. The more poke it's got the better it'll deal with long thin hoses and small tool connections.

In an ideal world they we all have hepa filtered machines. In reality there are constraints, typically financial,
where compromise has to be made so maybe you make sure you wear a mask and run an air filter or something.

I think the record camvacs and dx1000/4000 claim filtration down to 0. 5 micron? They have 3 filters.

 

[Komri]

That's really helpful, thanks both. I wasn't sure if HVLP was suitable for my tools and if the filtration would be good enough for MDF, the AC118CE quotes 99.97% >1 micron but I know MDF has smaller particles.

The Bosch looked like a good option for HPLV, I have some of their power tools and like them. Camvacs seem a bit cheaper than the NVD750, but none are cheap so I want to get a something that'll last. Other recommendations welcome.

I'll pair the vac with a mini cyclone from Amazon as they seem well reviewed for about £20.

Thanks

 

[Terrytpot]

No idea of the quality of these but had my eye on one for a while now as seem to be about the cheapest "M class" extractor going..
https://www.its.co.uk/pd/VTM1-MINI-Dust-Extractor-M-Class-_VTUVTM1.htm

 

[DBT85]

That's really helpful, thanks both. I wasn't sure if HVLP was suitable for my tools and if the filtration would be good enough for MDF, the AC118CE quotes 99.97% >1 micron but I know MDF has smaller particles.

The Bosch looked like a good option for HPLV, I have some of their power tools and like them. Camvacs seem a bit cheaper than the NVD750, but none are cheap so I want to get a something that'll last. Other recommendations welcome.

I'll pair the vac with a mini cyclone from Amazon as they seem well reviewed for about £20.

Thanks

Dispel the thought that MDF is more bad for you. All wood will give of tiny particles that can do you harm, doesn't matter if its oak or teak or MDF. Treat them all the same, like they want to do you in.

Times are difficult for both new and as a result second had stuff, but do have a look around.

The AC118CE would be fine for a tablesaw or other large tools as its for a fine filter on it and not the 5micron bags that most come with. It just won't perform well with the sub 50mm ports most hand tools have on them.

 

[harryc]

Have a look at the Nilfisk aero with auto take off.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/nilfisk-...Yfzz3jnjyjvT72CM2WhoCojEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Upgrade the filter to a M class

https://www.screwfix.com/p/nilfisk-...TZFJmFU-zeExHmslrFBoC5GcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Dave Moore]

Yes even with a mask on when I have turned Padauk my nose completely blocks up so I must be allergic to it.

 

[Jacob]

.......the saw is the outlet is 47mm and router table 57mm, so would a LPHV system work?

No.
I'd buy a Trend T30 or similar which would connect to both outlets (but not at the same time) though you'd need an adapter - not expensive, or bodge one up with plastic pipe and duct tape. The power comes on and off with the machine you connect to a socket on the dust extractor itself.
The Trend filter is washable (though they don't tell you that) but the bags aren't - unless you can find or make aftermarket washable bags, which should be possible. They seem take a lot and do OK until you get a planer and that's when you need large bore low pressure
PS HarryC's Nilfisk above looks a good alternative.
PPS I wouldn't worry too much about filter sizes etc as every collecting bag system will slowly (or quickly) clog up and remove finer and finer dust. Anything is much better than nothing!
"With or without bags" - without bags defeats the object as you then have a very dusty problem of emptying the can and cleaning the filter, but then if you've run out of bags still better than nothing.

 

[bp122]

All wood will give of tiny particles that can do you harm, doesn't matter if its oak or teak or MDF.

I agree with the overall idea but I would have to disagree with this statement. If it is just the question of particle size, fair enough, but man-made materials such as MDF have formaldehyde in them, not to mention other bonding agents that are also thrown up when you cut it up. So gram for gram, MDF is more harmful to us than natural saw dust.
That is why force-8 and other removable mask filters have a different filter for mdf specifically.

 

[DBT85]

I agree with the overall idea but I would have to disagree with this statement. If it is just the question of particle size, fair enough, but man-made materials such as MDF have formaldehyde in them, not to mention other bonding agents that are also thrown up when you cut it up. So gram for gram, MDF is more harmful to us than natural saw dust.
That is why force-8 and other removable mask filters have a different filter for mdf specifically.

To be fair I didn't say mdf wasn't worse overall but when talking about particle size. It's just that people oft think that "real" wood isn't something to worry about at all while MDF coupled with a 5g mast will bring about the apocalypse. Treat it all as it it's trying to kill you, because that's exactly what it's doing.

On the note of the formaldehyde, more is given off by a peice of fruit than by a similarly sized lump of mdf. I might inhale a little but I'm not actually eating it. Same goes for the MDF

 

[bp122]

Good to know
I learn something new everyday.

 

[akirk]

Also consider a general filter for the workshop - the vacuums simply take in what they can grab from the machine but quite a bit will still escape at the machine - and will be unfiltered - I have a simple workshop filter in addition to mask and vacuum and the quality of the air is noticeably better