Euro plug

[cmoops2]

Why would anyone want a bloody great hole through their worktop?

Because when one of these is fitted (see pic below) you have a cheap and simple way to avoid cutting off plugtops and thereby preserving the warranty on the appliance !

Also worthy of note is the fact that 'below-worktop' appliances (fridges freezers, washing washing machines etc) are, by domestic electrical design convention, supplied from a standard (unswitched) 13A socket outlet mounted in the wall to the rear of the appliance. This (unswitched) socket is generally configured as a spur from a fused/switched unit mounted above the worktop (in line with the socketoutlets above the worktop) which are there to supply small appliances (kettles, toasters etc).

In cases where the plug on a washing machine stops the appliance being pushed fully back against the wall (due to crap 1st and 2nd stage fix work placing the socket at the aperture midline), the answer is simple - relocate the socket to a position where the appliance plug top doesn't foul the rear of the appliance.

 

[Distinterior]

Because when one of these is fitted (see pic below) you have a cheap and simple way to avoid cutting off plugtops and thereby preserving the warranty on the appliance !

Also worthy of note is the fact that 'below-worktop' appliances (fridges freezers, washing washing machines etc) are, by domestic electrical design convention, supplied from a standard (unswitched) 13A socket outlet mounted in the wall to the rear of the appliance. This (unswitched) socket is generally configured as a spur from a fused/switched unit mounted above the worktop (in line with the socketoutlets above the worktop) which are there to supply small appliances (kettles, toasters etc).

In cases where the plug on a washing machine stops the appliance being pushed fully back against the wall (due to rubbish 1st and 2nd stage fix work placing the socket at the aperture midline), the answer is simple - relocate the socket to a position where the appliance plug top doesn't foul the rear of the appliance.

......OMG!.... I dont know where to start with these comments.....So, I'm not going to even bother!

 

[gcusick]

It's a vacuum switch which will connect to my mitre saw. I couldn't get a suitable one with a UK plug.

If the wire colours are the same as UK then it's ok.

You might consider one of these:


https://cpc.farnell.com/powerconnec...-uk-plug-black-13a/dp/PL06738?st=schuko to uk

 

[cmoops2]

......OMG!.... I dont know where to start with these comments.....So, I'm not going to even bother!

Go on, force yourself ....

 

[cmoops2]

You might consider one of these:


https://cpc.farnell.com/powerconnec...-uk-plug-black-13a/dp/PL06738?st=schuko to uk

These are my go-to option for hooking up tools with 2-pin european plugs ...

 

[AES]

cmoops 2 said, QUOTE: Go on, force yourself .... UNQUOTE:

Well, if Disinterior won't bite, I'll have a go, even though I'm miles out of date with UK regs, AND I'm not a sparky.

I presume the "socket thingy" you posted above is an ABOVE worksurface flush-mounted socket, or at least a "socket cover" right, cmoops2?

So 1st Q: Is it at least splash-proof? Water-proof?

2nd Q: I guess it's fine if used for above a "worktop" in a workshop or garage. Wouldn't worry me anyway. But in a KITCHEN???? I guess several kitchen customers are NOT going to be pleased with that. Or have you fitted such to customers' kitchens with NO complaints - so far?

3rd Q: Is it switched?

Sorry, I'll stick by my original point - if someone has the "juice" I think they should chase manufacturers who have such "silly" and "unfair" Warranty terms and conditions through the correct UK official channels. Such Ts & Cs are clearly written by a--e-covering lawyers and are only there to give them a possibility to shuffle out of their real obligations - as has been clearly shown in some of the stories posted above.

IMO, it should be made law that the manufacturers' in-country dealer fits a suitable in-country plug AND is held legally responsible for such fitting. Let the manufacturer and his dealer sort it out between them if there is a Warranty claim.

For myself I shall continue to cut non-compatible plugs off any new (or S/H) equipment I may buy. Never heard of such unjust warranty Ts & Cs being applied here, but no doubt it does happen, and I've just been lucky.

IF it does ever happen to me, I'll see. I MAY just be bloody-minded enough to take it further - MUCH further.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Insurance companies like to have loopholes in their contracts. I had an electrician do some work for me who told me one of his customers was refused a large payout for major flood damage caused by a burst pipe in the roof while he was away because his electrical test certificate was out of date.

 

[Spectric]

The normal way to supply appliances that are located under a worktop and electrically connected behind is to use unswitched sockets below the worktop that are switched from above using double pole switches so you can turn them on/off to comply with 7671.

Rather than have individual switchs, one for each appliance the way I would wire a kitchen would use a single grid switch panel and fit these type of switches

https://www.edwardes.co.uk/categories/20-amp-d-p-grid-switches-marked-for-appliances
This makes for a neater looking kitchen, this switch panel can be located in a cupboard so not even on show.

You will need to do all the calculations because in some large kitchens with many appliances you may need multiple feeds to the switch panel. Remember this is for appliances fitted with a plug and using a socket for connection, ovens will often require a dedicated 16 amp supply from the board and an unfused connection unit behind the appliance.

 

[HOJ]

This makes for a neater looking kitchen, this switch panel can be located in a cupboard so not even on show.

Just be careful with that solution.

The NICEIC’s guide to electrical work in the kitchen states:

Sockets should also be easily accessible. If appliances such as fridges, dishwashers and washing machines are fitted under worktops, getting to sockets may be difficult. Ideally, these appliances should be controlled by a switched fuse connection unit mounted above the worktop where you can reach it easily.

 

[Jester129]

A lot of electric ovens nowadays plug into a standard socket, so no need for 16A supply.

 

[Distinterior]

A lot of electric ovens nowadays plug into a standard socket, so no need for 16A supply.

Only the really cheap & nasty ones that I would never advise anyone to buy...!

As I've stated before,...I've been in the fitted kitchen & cabinet business for over 40 years and I've only ever fitted 2 ovens that were capable of operating from a 13a supply.

 

[stuart little]

These are my go-to option for hooking up tools with 2-pin european plugs ...

Uk suppliers should include one with any schuko plug machine.

 

[stuart little]

There was a time when plugs were not included with any electrical appliances, charged extra & fit it yourself!

 

[flying haggis]

Uk suppliers should include one with any schuko plug machine.

UK suppliers should provide a properly fitted bs1363 plug rather than an adaptor. I always thought that if you were supplied a drill for example with the wrong plug you could send it back and demand one that is" fit for purpose"

 

[Spectric]

A lot of electric ovens nowadays plug into a standard socket, so no need for 16A supply.

Unless you buy Bosch, Neff or Siemens as they are a continental design.

 

[Thingybob]

I've never had this situation with a power tool as such, but I have had this issue arise with a fitted integrated Dishwasher and a fitted integrated Fridge Freezer a couple of years ago.
Then, and still currently, they are delivered with a moulded 13a plug on the power lead. This is not always convenient because it is not viable or practical to plug the machine in to a socket behind a fitted in machine. There is not usually enough room behind the machine when its fitted in and, of course, then the Client has no access to the plug or switch.

Putting the socket & plug in an adjacent cabinet is the better option and ideally, just cutting off the moulded plug and replacing it with a
re-wireable plug is an much tidier option.

About 6 months after the installation, the Client rang me to say that they had a problem with the DW and had called the manufacturer who had sent an appliance "Engineer " to look at it.......The "Engineer" had then told the Client that the warranty was null & void because I had removed the moulded plug and replaced it with a re-wireable one.

The reason the DW failed was a faulty pump,....nothing to do with me replacing the plug...!!

The DW was repaired but not under warranty, so I had to pay for the cost of the repair.

Edit. The conversation between myself and the appliance " Engineer " was such that it had to be had outside coz I couldn't use that kind of language in front of the Client......I was not happy!!

Sounds like a job's worth I used to drill a 50 mm hole below a 1 gang dry lining box fitted through the back of the next cupboard and feed the plug and cable through it

 

[Thingybob]

Yeah, I remember that too. But I also THINK I remember newspaper, etc, talk that a lot (?) of people were making a real pigs ear of fitting plugs (you know, the sort of "simple" stuff like fitting the L (brown) line into the Earth (green/yellow) pin, and such like) that it became "the norm" for most machines and appliances to come with the plug ready-fitted - and often these days, moulded on!

It's frightening that the same people are allowed to drive a car or hire tools

 

[Thingybob]

cmoops 2 said, QUOTE: Go on, force yourself .... UNQUOTE:

Well, if Disinterior won't bite, I'll have a go, even though I'm miles out of date with UK regs, AND I'm not a sparky.

I presume the "socket thingy" you posted above is an ABOVE worksurface flush-mounted socket, or at least a "socket cover" right, cmoops2?

So 1st Q: Is it at least splash-proof? Water-proof?

2nd Q: I guess it's fine if used for above a "worktop" in a workshop or garage. Wouldn't worry me anyway. But in a KITCHEN???? I guess several kitchen customers are NOT going to be pleased with that. Or have you fitted such to customers' kitchens with NO complaints - so far?

3rd Q: Is it switched?

Sorry, I'll stick by my original point - if someone has the "juice" I think they should chase manufacturers who have such "silly" and "unfair" Warranty terms and conditions through the correct UK official channels. Such Ts & Cs are clearly written by a--e-covering lawyers and are only there to give them a possibility to shuffle out of their real obligations - as has been clearly shown in some of the stories posted above.

IMO, it should be made law that the manufacturers' in-country dealer fits a suitable in-country plug AND is held legally responsible for such fitting. Let the manufacturer and his dealer sort it out between them if there is a Warranty claim.

For myself I shall continue to cut non-compatible plugs off any new (or S/H) equipment I may buy. Never heard of such unjust warranty Ts & Cs being applied here, but no doubt it does happen, and I've just been lucky.

IF it does ever happen to me, I'll see. I MAY just be bloody-minded enough to take it further - MUCH further.

Hear Hear

 

[cmoops2]

cmoops 2 said, QUOTE: Go on, force yourself .... UNQUOTE:

Well, if Disinterior won't bite, I'll have a go, even though I'm miles out of date with UK regs, AND I'm not a sparky.

I presume the "socket thingy" you posted above is an ABOVE worksurface flush-mounted socket, or at least a "socket cover" right, cmoops2?

So 1st Q: Is it at least splash-proof? Water-proof?

2nd Q: I guess it's fine if used for above a "worktop" in a workshop or garage. Wouldn't worry me anyway. But in a KITCHEN???? I guess several kitchen customers are NOT going to be pleased with that. Or have you fitted such to customers' kitchens with NO complaints - so far?

3rd Q: Is it switched?

Sorry, I'll stick by my original point - if someone has the "juice" I think they should chase manufacturers who have such "silly" and "unfair" Warranty terms and conditions through the correct UK official channels. Such Ts & Cs are clearly written by a--e-covering lawyers and are only there to give them a possibility to shuffle out of their real obligations - as has been clearly shown in some of the stories posted above.

IMO, it should be made law that the manufacturers' in-country dealer fits a suitable in-country plug AND is held legally responsible for such fitting. Let the manufacturer and his dealer sort it out between them if there is a Warranty claim.

For myself I shall continue to cut non-compatible plugs off any new (or S/H) equipment I may buy. Never heard of such unjust warranty Ts & Cs being applied here, but no doubt it does happen, and I've just been lucky.

IF it does ever happen to me, I'll see. I MAY just be bloody-minded enough to take it further - MUCH further.

Hi Thingybob - thanks for 'biting' and posing me a few questions which I've attempted to answer below:

1st, 2nd and 3rd Q: The 'socket-thingy' is in fact a computer desk cable tidy (the picture I originally provided was a quick & dirty one of a cheap plastice version) I've managed to find an example of the brushed stainless type (pictured below) I've used in Utility Room applications as they are easy to seal in a manner that is aesthetically acceptable to the client.

You will note that I previously made the point about 'above-worktop' use of a swiched/fused connection unit to control the socket outlet for a 'below-worktop' appliance (which I was pleased to see support from several posters in this thread). The 'problem' that causes some individuals to crop 13A plugtops is invariably associated with kitchen refurbishment. Because such refurbishments involve 'kitchen-fitters' and (God help me) Part P 'electricians', in my experience, far too many of the electrical aspects of such works range from dire to bl**dy dangerous. For those readers who have had a kitchen refit that involved ANY change to the electrical installation in the property, you should have been provided with some form of electrical test certication (such as an EICR, EIC or MEIWC). Any and all reputable electricians WILL certify their work - if you don't receive such certification, it suggests that your electrician doesn't park his van, he ties it up to a horse rail.

I must now turn to your comments about 'juice' and try (in a professionally persuasive manner) to infom you on aspects of electrical equipment design and certification. While you may think it's all about smoke & mirrors, small print, consumer rights or whatever, the reality is simply linked to the need for an appliance manufactrer to achieve UK CA (the post Brexit version of the CE mark). To achieve UK CA, the COMPLETE appliance is designed and tested to a bunch of internationally recognised standards which contribute to the certification and they WARRANT the appliance to that certification. If you check the manufacturer's instructions (MI's) for virtually all white goods, the electrical connection will be specified. That said, some manufacturer's do permit the use of an alternative 'national' plug, but not all. So, before you crop off a plug top (and feed the cable through a crappily drilled hole that grollies the laminate), read the MI's because, when the house burns down, or the owner gets electrocuted, the coroner / bloke in a wig will ask the insurance investigator for evidence of tampering and you daily routine may take an adverse turn ...

 

[AES]

Hi Thingybob - thanks for 'biting' and posing me a few questions which I've attempted to answer below:

1st, 2nd and 3rd Q: The 'socket-thingy' is in fact a computer desk cable tidy (the picture I originally provided was a quick & dirty one of a cheap plastice version) I've managed to find an example of the brushed stainless type (pictured below) I've used in Utility Room applications as they are easy to seal in a manner that is aesthetically acceptable to the client.

You will note that I previously made the point about 'above-worktop' use of a swiched/fused connection unit to control the socket outlet for a 'below-worktop' appliance (which I was pleased to see support from several posters in this thread). The 'problem' that causes some individuals to crop 13A plugtops is invariably associated with kitchen refurbishment. Because such refurbishments involve 'kitchen-fitters' and (God help me) Part P 'electricians', in my experience, far too many of the electrical aspects of such works range from dire to bl**dy dangerous. For those readers who have had a kitchen refit that involved ANY change to the electrical installation in the property, you should have been provided with some form of electrical test certication (such as an EICR, EIC or MEIWC). Any and all reputable electricians WILL certify their work - if you don't receive such certification, it suggests that your electrician doesn't park his van, he ties it up to a horse rail.

I must now turn to your comments about 'juice' and try (in a professionally persuasive manner) to infom you on aspects of electrical equipment design and certification. While you may think it's all about smoke & mirrors, small print, consumer rights or whatever, the reality is simply linked to the need for an appliance manufactrer to achieve UK CA (the post Brexit version of the CE mark). To achieve UK CA, the COMPLETE appliance is designed and tested to a bunch of internationally recognised standards which contribute to the certification and they WARRANT the appliance to that certification. If you check the manufacturer's instructions (MI's) for virtually all white goods, the electrical connection will be specified. That said, some manufacturer's do permit the use of an alternative 'national' plug, but not all. So, before you crop off a plug top (and feed the cable through a crappily drilled hole that grollies the laminate), read the MI's because, when the house burns down, or the owner gets electrocuted, the coroner / bloke in a wig will ask the insurance investigator for evidence of tampering and you daily routine may take an adverse turn ...

Thanks for your reply cmoops2: Just to set the record straight before he does, it was me ("AES") and not "Thingybob" who replied to your post, as quoted above.

Thanks for the explanation, and I apologise for the fact that in the picture of the "socket cover" (?) you posted, it was not clear to me that it was "just" a "cable hole cover". I guess I should have realised because I have something very similar on my own office desks. But NOT on a kitchen worktop. Anyway ......

While I take your point about the whole appliance, inc the power cable and plug, being tested by the manufacturer, I still believe that to not Warranty a complete appliance because somebody "may" have fitted the correct for country plug incorrectly is simply "weasle-wording". You may well have seen "certified" electricians making a pig's ear of fitting the "correct" plug, I don't doubt you, but IMO, that can easily be solved by A) the manufacturer re-testing the appliance with the correct in country plug, correctly fitted, OR; B) by making the manufacturers' in country dealers/distributors being individually held legally responsible for doing so, as I suggested in an earlier post.

"Fortunately" here in Switzerland, the whole system of wiring kitchen appliances is completely different (most of ours are 3 phase anyway), but I stick to my own opinion that in the case of the UK system, the whole idea of no Warranty if plug changing is simply weasel-wording - as has been shown by the stories previously posted in this thread.

So sorry, I do not dispute what you're saying, but I do not see any part of your explanation that justifies me in changing my own opinion and/or "standard practices".

It's a bit late to point it out now, especially as I was not clear in previous posts, but in my "just cut it off and don't bother with adaptors" approach, I was actually talking about tools and workshop equipment, not kitchen appliances. And that is not weasel-wording or an "excuse" either!