Esta blades for Charnwood planer W583

[Picalilli]

Hi all - I’m considering buying a Charnwood w583 planer thicknesser and wonder if anyone can advise whether it’s possible to fit this model with an esta blade setup for disposable blades?

Also interested in peoples thoughts on the planer in general. It was between this and the PT107 for my budget. I am not keen on going second hand as I’ve never owned one before so wouldn’t know what I was looking for buying used, and I also like the idea of having the guarantee. I was tempted by the Axminster aw2260s for the helical blades but it’s about £500 too much for me and I can’t stretch that far.

Any advice would be great - I’m mainly interested in the esta blade setup as I hear it can be far more convenient getting them set and disposable blades are much cheaper.

Thanks all!

 

[MikeK]

Here is a thread from 2011 about the Charnwood W583. The thread doesn't answer your question about the Esta knives, but does contain opinions from others about the W583 that might be helpful.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/charnwood-w583-planer-thicknesser-what-do-people-think.51758/
The Charnwood W583 appears to share the same pedigree as my former Holzmann HOB260NL. Based on this, and my past experience with the Holzmann, I would avoid the W583. Here is the thread about my experiences with the Holzmann.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/holzmann-hob260nl-p-t-issues.134325/

 

[clogs]

Can't help with Esta set up......
it's a shame not to go used......decent machines are almost indestructable......
U need to find a friend close by with planer/thicknesser experience.....
u would be able to try out my two to gain confidence.....
I'd gladly help if I lived closer.......

PS, I have a 13 Wadkin wood lathe and my huge planer /thicknesser was late 40's by the same manufacturer......

There are 2 v/experienced guy's on here that rebuild machines, I'm sure they might have something to suit u and if they have rebuilt it it would be better than new....or know of something that may fit u requirements.........

If I lived in the UK they would be first on my list.....

I have no relations with them, only thru the forum over the years......

 

[Picalilli]

Here is a thread from 2011 about the Charnwood W583. The thread doesn't answer your question about the Esta knives, but does contain opinions from others about the W583 that might be helpful.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/charnwood-w583-planer-thicknesser-what-do-people-think.51758/
The Charnwood W583 appears to share the same pedigree as my former Holzmann HOB260NL. Based on this, and my past experience with the Holzmann, I would avoid the W583. Here is the thread about my experiences with the Holzmann.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/holzmann-hob260nl-p-t-issues.134325/

Thanks for the advice - I’ve read through your thread on the holzman and that is disappointing…it does seem to be essentially the same machine.

It really doesn’t seem like there’s much in my budget new. I wonder whether the Axminster would be a better option and hold out till I have the extra cash…

 

[Picalilli]

Can't help with Esta set up......
it's a shame not to go used......decent machines are almost indestructable......
U need to find a friend close by with planer/thicknesser experience.....
u would be able to try out my two to gain confidence.....
I'd gladly help if I lived closer.......

PS, I have a 13 Wadkin wood lathe and my huge planer /thicknesser was late 40's by the same manufacturer......

There are 2 v/experienced guy's on here that rebuild machines, I'm sure they might have something to suit u and if they have rebuilt it it would be better than new....or know of something that may fit u requirements.........

If I lived in the UK they would be first on my list.....

I have no relations with them, only thru the forum over the years......

Thanks - I am tempted to take the chance on nee, but it could be a lot of money if I buy something that needs a lot of work and I just don’t know what I’m looking for. In general are they fairly simple machines to figure out and get to grips with? I did notice a Sedgwick selling locally but there’s not much info on it, or model numbers. No idea whether £800 is reasonable or not…

 

[SLM]

For the money that you’re proposing spending on a new machine, you could get something very good secondhand. And that doesn’t have to mean a cast iron behemoth.

Whilst I understand people’s reticence, anticipating landing themselves with a machine beyond their skill or available time to repair, with just a little research and caution, you can pick up a great machine that requires no more skill or time to set up than to commission a new machine.

I’d suggest you have a look through the archives here; you’ll find a great many instances of people enquiring about a budget machine, steadfastly declining the secondhand option… a short time later comes the ‘I’m Delighted With My New Machine’ thread… then, a little later still the ‘Frustration’ thread, searching for the solution to make the damn thing accurate/repeatable/quiet etc…

Equally, look through the archives and you will see what a wealth of information and support is available to anyone wishing to buy a good, used machine.

 

[Picalilli]

For the money that you’re proposing spending on a new machine, you could get something very good secondhand. And that doesn’t have to mean a cast iron behemoth.

Whilst I understand people’s reticence, anticipating landing themselves with a machine beyond their skill or available time to repair, with just a little research and caution, you can pick up a great machine that requires no more skill or time to set up than to commission a new machine.

I’d suggest you have a look through the archives here; you’ll find a great many instances of people enquiring about a budget machine, steadfastly declining the secondhand option… a short time later comes the ‘I’m Delighted With My New Machine’ thread… then, a little later still the ‘Frustration’ thread, searching for the solution to make the damn thing accurate/repeatable/quiet etc…

Equally, look through the archives and you will see what a wealth of information and support is available to anyone wishing to buy a good, used machine.

Thanks - I am tempted. I bought a used pillar drill last year and ended up learning a lot just from taking it apart and fixing the run out. I guess you end up understanding the machines much more when doing this. The only worry is that I end up buying something beyond repair because I don’t know what I’m looking for. The Sedgwick I’ve posted above for example, are these the type of machine where there’s very little that can’t be repaired/replaced? Are spare parts readily available etc?

 

[SLM]

Thanks - I am tempted. I bought a used pillar drill last year and ended up learning a lot just from taking it apart and fixing the run out. I guess you end up understanding the machines much more when doing this. The only worry is that I end up buying something beyond repair because I don’t know what I’m looking for. The Sedgwick I’ve posted above for example, are these the type of machine where there’s very little that can’t be repaired/replaced? Are spare parts readily available etc?

Others on here have specific knowledge of the Sedgwick machines, but in general, parts available for them. Belts, pulleys, bearings, knob and handles, nuts and bolts, etc are standard industrial components, in the main. These can be got from numerous places such as RS, Bearing Boys, local specialists…

But, all my machines were acquired secondhand. Apart from my bandsaw (bought as a non-runner), all just required a clean, lubrication here and there and electrical work (I opted for 3phase machines).

I would suggest that you decide on the specification that you need. Add a bit, to future proof, and make a list of machines that fit the bill. As you’re looking at a Sedgwick, assuming it meets your specification, I see no reason to look elsewhere.

Next, read up on them, here and elsewhere. Ask questions!

Then start looking; there’s always a few good Sedgwick machine around. I’m sure, armed with your newfound understanding of them, you’ll be able to shortlist a couple, which the experts here would, I’m sure, gladly advise upon.

 

[Doug71]

This is the new version of that Sedgwick, they are generally bulletproof but I understand why people want to buy new. The fact they are 4 times the price of the Charnwood says it all.

https://www.axminstertools.com/sedgwick-pt1-planer-thicknesser-230v-340078
The Esta knife set up is good but the holders are about £75 each and the knives another £15 each so if it's a 3 knife block you are looking at nearly £300. I use them and think they are great but it's a fair chunk of money if you aren't changing knives that often.

 

[sams93]

I completely agree with all this. I am only a DIYer but when I started out I assumed that buying new stuff would still be a better idea whilst on a budget.

I quickly learned that a cheap new machine which has low build quality, will always have low build quality.

The older machines, whilst may need a bit more attention to clean them up etc, have much better build quality. As a DIYer my budget is always going to be lower, and I can get much more solid, good quality 'older' machines. I also really enjoy being able to use something that has provided service to people before me etc etc.

I cannot see that going forwards I will likely ever be looking to buy a new stationary machine.

Can't help with Esta set up......
it's a shame not to go used......decent machines are almost indestructable......
U need to find a friend close by with planer/thicknesser experience.....
u would be able to try out my two to gain confidence.....
I'd gladly help if I lived closer.......

PS, I have a 13 Wadkin wood lathe and my huge planer /thicknesser was late 40's by the same manufacturer......

There are 2 v/experienced guy's on here that rebuild machines, I'm sure they might have something to suit u and if they have rebuilt it it would be better than new....or know of something that may fit u requirements.........

If I lived in the UK they would be first on my list.....

I have no relations with them, only thru the forum over the years......

 

[Spectric]

Why go down that route if you don't have to, I used them on a Record PT107 because I failed to do my homework and ask the right questions. With hindsight I would look at Tersa blades because on top of the cost of my PT107 at £1300 with W/Kit I had to add £246 for the Esta Bruck carriers and blades.

I think some of the second hand machines are the way to go if you are able to do some tinkering or just get something that delivers out of the box.

possible to fit this model with an esta blade setup for disposable blades?

Looking at their pictures they do show the same blade setting gauges that are supposed to work on the PT107 so if your three blades are wedged in by small screws then the Esta system would be ok.

Does it look like this

https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk/machinery/tooling.asp?section=esta-bruck-knife-system-382

 

[MikeK]

The Esta knife set up is good but the holders are about £75 each and the knives another £15 each so if it's a 3 knife block you are looking at nearly £300. I use them and think they are great but it's a fair chunk of money if you aren't changing knives that often.

This is as close to a Tersa setup you can get without having a custom cutter block made, if that is even possible for these machines. To be clear about the Esta knife system, the holders are a one time purchase and each knife has two edges, so you're really buying six knives at the beginning (same as the Tersa).

 

[Picalilli]

Thanks for the advice all. I’m swaying more towards the used PT idea now…waiting on some more info on the Sedgwick one I posted and may post a new thread about that when I know the model number etc to see if people can offer advice…unless anyone can identify it based just on that photo?

 

[Fitzroy]

Sedgwick PT or MB, same machine but different widths and can't tell which from the image. There is a full rebuild of an MB thread by Deema and Sideways, that would give you the ultimate view of the machine!

 

[Picalilli]

Thanks that’s really helpful. It seems to be a popular machine from what I’m reading.

Ballpark, what seems a reasonable price for one of these, assuming good condition etc? Or is it just a bit of a lottery and depends how many people are bidding/want it at the time? I’ve tried a ‘sold’ search on ebay but not loads of these coming up

 

[clogs]

unless there's a broken casting everythng is repairable.....
If u go to see this or any other machine......
take some wood with u and give it a try.....a decent owner wont mind.....
Unless they have already installed a new machine it may be not poss to try it out.....
so just wait a while something will turn up.....promise.....
The price seems fair for a decent machine.....
need to know what voltage it is and is there decent access if u buy.....?
how will u get it home....?

 

[Picalilli]

It says it’s single phase. Waiting for some more info on it. There’s another similar available for £1k but with an extractor included. I have a wall mounted hvlp extractor but not sure if it’s up to the job…

I’d have to hire a van I imagine to pick up, neither of the ones I’ve seen are too far from me mind…

 

[SLM]

I bought my machine for about £400, sold as seen. I knew the 3phase motor would need replacing, so that was factored in. I only need to check that nothing was cracked and that everything was moving.

The point being that depending upon how much time you have to put into it, it’s not difficult to find a worthwhile doer upper. My P/T is a Dominion, but the same applies to other machines.

NB: not everything need to move freely, when buying. I once bought a table saw with seized rise and fall, but was familiar enough with the mechanism to know what the problem would be; I cleaned and lubricated it all, and replaced a broken universal joint. Very easy! And the machine was about 1/3 price of machines without that problem.

 

[deema]

I would contact Esta to verify if their system has been tested with the machine. Looking at the manual the knives are on springs rather than threaded height adjusters. This isn’t a very good system IMO and makes knife setting more frustrating than it should be The Esta system drops in, and has a couple of small lugs to set the height of the carrier off the block. However, it might not be the right height, in which case if it had blade height adjusters these can be used to set the carrier height and be lock tite into place.
For most people you can’t go wrong with a Sedgwick, they are extremely durable, repeatable and sturdy machines. The design remained the same until very recently where a few tweaks have been made. However spares are readily available from Sedgwick, but they do know how to charge. For most ’consumable‘ items they are Jelly Bean parts available from almost anywhere and significantly cheaper.

The PT drive system is different to the MB, it only has a single motor. The MB has two motors. The MB if you buy a real vintage machine could have imperial motors within it. If you look to change a 3ph machine to single phase by swapping motors be aware that the drive roller motor has a reduction gear box that if the motor is imperial has a weird imperial mounting bolt pattern. This means that you would need both a motor and a gear box. A new gear box isn’t cheap.

 

[Spectric]

However, it might not be the right height, in which case if it had blade height adjusters these can be used to set the carrier height and be lock tite into place.

Those lugs sit on the actual drum, dump any springs and the blades sit in the carrier and the bolts / screws hold both carrier and blade in place. Once fitted I then set my outfeed table to the blade height.

https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk/machinery/tooling.asp?section=esta-bruck-knife-system-382
View attachment 158489

I can now change all three blades in just minutes whereas before it was a joke, just chasing my tail getting two out of three correct.