Elektra Beckum planer HC 260. Help please.

[Rogerthedodger]

I tagged this post onto another thread to do with the same machine. I have had no responses so maybe the more clever of you can't see the original. Second go with it as a new topic.

I have wasted a precious day xxxxing about with my EB HC260 P/T so I hope for some clues so I don't waste tomorrow.

I have had this P/T for some months and I am now squaring loads of rough planed stock to pretty exacting requiremenst. I understand how to set the planer knives but feel that the EB manuals could be more detailed in their instructions. The nub of the problem is that today (having fitted new blades) I have noticed that in planer mode the finished work (whilst beautifully planed) is bevelled in that the "straight" edge is concave - both the leading and trailing sections of the length have more taken off.

Having messed about with the knife settings for ages, I noticed that there are two grub screws fitted to the mountings of the outfeed table that affect the alignment of this table in relation to the infeed and cutter block. Having played about with this, I notice that adjusting the alignment of the O/F table affects the setting of the knives (measured as a max figure over the height of the O/F). Mercifully, it then got too dark (besides being perishing freezing today - yes I do not have the luxury of an ondoor w/s - mine is the back garden ).

Clearly, something has changed as this problem has not always been the case. Previous planing has been dead straight althougth I have experienced occasional rear end planing snipe. Also, it is highly likely that the problem is due to the table alignment as this snipe disappeared completely today.

I feel that the main problem is that the EB manuals do not give anywhere near enough information about their machines for the bits that the user can easily change. I have a EB bandsaw and have come across this problem with that machine.

The nitty gritty.

Is there a standard rule that applies to the alignment of the O/F table in comparison to the infeed ie should it slope up/down or be dead level??

Or - Is there an owner of this model that has come across this problem?

Second, In the manual the detail of the planer alignment setting is about as detailed (to quote Basil Fawlty) as the Italian book of war heroes (or for our italian wood workers he said back peddling - the english book of great lovers.)

I use a heavy straight edge and two feeler gauges .002 and .004 (the smaller one goes under the straight edge but the bigger one will not - knife set!. The problem is that this is a waste of time if the table alignment is not set first as this, understandably, changes the knife setting.

Clearly, a patient time honoured approach is called for but the adjusting hammer is within easy reach!! .Your advice and comments all welcome.
_________________

 

[RogerS]

Rog

Could it be expanding/contracting with changes in temperature in the workshop? We've had some pretty cold nights recently and if you warm your workshop up ?? Just a thought.

Or there is this thread https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3531&highlight=planer

Rog

 

[Lord Nibbo]

When the infeed table is raised to the same height as the outfeed table are they both exactly level over the total length?


I start by checking that they are both level then adjust the outfeed table by rotating the rotor so it moves a piece of wood about 1/4 of an inch each time a blade passes.

 

[Rogerthedodger]

Roger you are a funny man

We've had some pretty cold nights recently and if you warm your workshop up ??

I could ask for advice on how to heat the garden but fortunately the planer spends the nights in the house proberbly warmer than me! Back to the drawing board?

Lord Nibbo:

Thanks for the tip but this is the blade alignment method I used to use. I now use the edge and gauges which I feel is more accurate.

My outfeed table does not raise or lower as such. I can only change the alignment of it via the grub screws as I have described. Cutter knife height is adjusted on the blades themselves.

Yes I have placed a straight edge along the entire planer beds. With the infeed "fully" raised, it is perfectly level with the outfeed to the extent that I cannot get a .002 feeler gauge under it along it's length both sides of the bed.

Puzzled? I am . Keep the ideas coming.

Roger


ps as a matter of interest, I have emailed EB via their website. 48 hours later I have yet to receive a response let alone a fix!!!

 

[ike]

Roger,

I understand your frustration because I've gone round that loop with my Scheppach in the early days. On the assumption that most if not all surface planers work on the same principle, all I can offer based on my own experience is this,

Checkingwith the infeed table at the "zero" position, the outfeed table is level and parallel with the said adjusting screws (as you have obviously figured out).

Back the infeed table down and then adjust the blade height as close as possible to the outfeed table. Set so the blade just kisses a straightedge. If it carries it more than a mm or so, IME you may begin to experience some degree of convexity, to some extent affected by how you apply downward pressure to the timber on the outfeed.

Ike

 

[Rogerthedodger]

Right - Honestly time - thought i'd own up to the disgusting revelation that I have not touched the planer since the last posting on this subject (7 months?) But then again, it may help to update on the progress I have made today.

Firstly i took the advice from a referral thread on the original (think it was Roger Sinden) and stripped both tables down and thoroughly cleaned them.
This was a good exercise. I discovered that on a previous strip down I had misfitted (is that good grammar?) the washers on the infeed table clamps which should have been fitted to function as shims and not washers. This only affected the operation of the infeed height and not the alignment but serves to illustrate that you should make notes when you strip machinery down and not rely on memory.

This done, I aligned both tables with a straight edge. There is no infeed alignment capability on the EB. The outfeed has grub screws where a minute turn on the allen key has an ashtomishing effect on the table height. One side of the outfeed was a fair bit out (high).

When I had the tables level, I checked the height of the blades against the outfeed table I used two feeler gauges (.005mm and .010mm) and a straight edge. When the blade lifts the edge it does so by a height more than the lower gauge and not more than the higher one.

Result ? bingo? a bloody marvellous improvement?

I would say that it ain't brilliant but perhaps that is because it ain't a precision machine. For starters, there are discrepancies in the level of both beds - being aluminium? I wonder how much it would cost me to have them ground flat? However when I say "not brilliant" I am being quite pedantic. If I take a slice (half a mm?) off a rough piece, the result is smooth and shiny. When I take a whisker off a previously planed piece, the finish is rippled which I percieve to be inconsistentcies between the blade heights?

Also again when I take a whisker off smooth timber, there is a minute amount of snipe on the first pass which does not repeat on the second pass - in fact the snipe is corrected on the second and subsequent passes. .

I shall have a further play tomorrow with blades and height settings but I can vouch for two pieces of advice that I have picked up from this forum

1. When it gets too much - leave it alone. Go away and come back preferably the nexy day (but don't copy me and leave it 6 months). You will be amazed in the cold light of the next day how common sense kicks in to address the things that tied you up in knots the night before.

2. Don't consider aligning the blades until you have got the beds aligned. If you use the outfeed table as a reference to align the blades, it is amazing how much the alignment of that table affects the overall blade height setting.

Basically, a more logical approach and a good think about how you expect the machine to achive what you expect it to do makes a good start. Which you cannot do if you are pulling your hair out at midnight.

Any comments on my current problem-ets gratefully received.

Regards


Roger

 

[les chicken]

Roger

Missed your original post, I too have one of these machines and they are pretty damn good for the price. I have had mine for about 3 years and have had no problems, apart from the odd missed nail on reclaimed wood messing up the blades

Recently chucked 18 cu ft of rough sawn oak through mine "marvelous"

One tip when planing wood flat, lay it on a flat surface and find the face that has a gap under the middle not so that it is rocking. If you understand my meaning, always plane with the gap under the middle it prevents rocking as you go across the blades.

I hope this makes sense.

Les

 

[Colin C]

Roger
, apart from the odd missed nail on reclaimed wood messing up the blades

Les

To find the nails in you timber, try a stud finder that will do metal too and it will help you find them .

I know how you feel about the nails as I have worked on lots of furniture that has had nails in some odd places :evil: and always when I have just sharpened my chisels :roll:

 

[Lee Brubaker]

Firstly, being Canadian, not familiar with the machine make & model.Secondly, still have not got used to your terminology but give me time & I will smarten up. It took me a while to realize that you were discussing what we call a jointer. We reserve the word planer for sizing lumber to thickness.
I used to have considerable difficulty in setting the blades(3) correctly in my planer(jointer) until I broke down & bought a magnetic blade jig. Once the blades have been set to the outfeed table, any problems can pretty well be attributed to the infeed table & it's orientation to the outfeed table. If this orientation is off, you can get cupped edges, bowed edges, as well as snipe & often grain tear-out even if edging with the grain. With my old planer(edger) the outfeed table is fixed so all table adjustments are restricted to the infeed table.
When moving your planer from inside to the garden and back, I hope it is on castors(mobile base) & if not but a bench model instead that you are not grabbing it by the ends of the tables to horse it about. If this is the case you stand in danger of actually warping the tables causing them to be cupped. There is no cure for such a problem.

Lee

 

[Rogerthedodger]

Hello Lee

If ever we English thought we spoke a different language to the North Americans (lumping in the Canadians - which I appreciate is as subtle as calling the English "Scots" - incidentally, you can get away with it more times that way than the other way around!!) is when you select the "English (US) version of a Microsoft product and use spellcheck??

I once heard a funny dialogue from a comedian ( think it was Freeberg) which revolverd around the differences in the definition of the word "***" which to us is a cigarette ? and to you lot over there is something else.

Back to the Planer.

I appreciate your comment about lugging the planer around. The EB is probably more portable than most. I have fitted the additional wheel kit and handle. Can't think of the proper term for the latter but it is a shaft that bolts on underneath the stand and saves you the need to haul on the tables. I also have a couple of ramps so getting the thing through the patio doors and set up in the Garden is a quick and non-contentsious task.

I too think that for the dosh this is a pretty good Planer/Thicknesser. I have used others (big workshop 3 blade machines) and the EB comes close to for finish but there is no way that "portability" comes into the equation with the others. Mine is the Green EB and not the blue (Asian) Metabo rebrand. However, two grumbles There is a problem with the accuracy of the aluminium tables (mine are not flat - hence my comment about getting them ground flat ) plus the fence is slightly concave from top to bottom. This coud be rectified with a subfence but I have always found that to adjust the angle of the fence according to the height of the stock I am working is quick to do and forces me into the doctrine of constantly checking the accuraccy as I go and not taking it for granted.

Second Grump, the thicknesser infeed needs sorting out as it varies between ripping the piece out of your hand and not taking it through at all - got to work on this one.

As regards the Magnet aligning tool for the blades, I bought the dakota one after reading about it on this forum. Used it and gave up after 10 minutes and went back to the straight edge and feeler gauges. Might give it another outing today and you might see it on Ebay tomorrow.

Metal detectors. I have two handhelds. One a cheapo (£2 car boot) and a ponsey (Screwfix I think) stud locator, electrical current detector, makes tea and coffee metal finder. They both do the job equally well of metal finding in wood. One place to look that most forget is the end grain of the timber piece. It is common to find staples, that have been used to attach lables!! imbedded there. It only takes one of these and your new £mega blade has the edge taken right off.

Finally, I spent the day in utter termoil yesterday. My delighful daughter had an Inset day (sorry that's a teacher training day - basically a day off school) and guess who promised her weeks ago that we would go to Legoland Windsor. On the same day of wonderful dry sunny planer playing weather. I did try to persuade her that it would be as equally entertaining to help Dad set up his EB but unfortunately she wouldn't have any of it ? Still it ain't raining today so here goes.

Regards all.

Roger

 

[dance]

Having messed about with the knife settings for ages, I noticed that there are two grub screws fitted to the mountings of the outfeed table that affect the alignment of this table in relation to the infeed and cutter block.

I'm trying to get my beds correctly set and it's not fun. I have a Veritas alu straight edge and I have found these grub screws (underneath the bed, right?) but I haven't been able to loosen them yet. I'm worried that the beds themselves are bent because the PT has been lifted by them in the past (not by me). I can't see any damage, but I'm going to have a go with my straight edge and see if that reveals any damage. I've looked for a quote for new beds but I can't find a price online and I'd hate to buy new beds and find some other part of the machine was also damaged and I would still inevitably get poor results.

 

[rlearmonth]

Any chance any of the correspondents on this thread are still available

I am currently reconditioning one of these machines and have a similar need to check co-planarity of the tables

If I use the grub screws to change the alignment of the out feed table, then align the blabdes to this what will be the effect on the thicknesser performance, which at the moment is very good

Here's hoping
Robin

 

[blackrodd]

Hello and welcome, Firstly, Don't allow the machine to be moved around by the tables they will move out of alignment,
Only adjust these screws if needed.
Wind the in feed bed level with the outfeed , then using A straight edge check the tables from corner to corner and front to back in 3, or 4 places 2 outsides, 2, equally middle.
Ensure all the machine is perfectly clean and no build up of resin or chips etc are present.
Make sure the lock lever (4) on page 15 of the manual is not distorting the bed when locking in place.
Adjust the screws, if needed.
The thicknesser should be unaffected by any of this above.
Here's a link to the manual.
HTH Regards Rodders

http://www.free-instruction-manuals.com ... 755376.pdf

 

[Hemsby]

Hi,

This recent post may be of some help to you. Also should you need a copy of the original manual PM me with your email and I can send it.

eb-hc260m-planer-thicknesser-set-up-manual-request-t93557.html

Good luck,

Regards,
Keith

 

[rlearmonth]

Gentlemen

Thanks for the responses, good to know other people are still interested in these little machines

I managed to find the manual a few days ago

Will try what you suggest and see how I go. Hemsby the other post regarding measuring the alignment of the thicknesser bed to the cutter block is helpful. I will check that as well. Hopefully it is OK, trying to adjust it sounds problematic!! This does however address my concern about the relationships of the alignments for the two different operations

Really enjoying this site

Greetings for the festive season from hot and sunny South Africa

 

[rlearmonth]

Hi Guys
Greetings from SA again.
Since my last post I had my old machine working well.
However the sprockets the raise the thicknesser table have now stripped. Unfortunately I have had to dismantle the machine to remove these damaged sprockets and to get them to an engineering workshop to see if they can make new ones.
Three questions questions:
1)Has anyone had this problem previously and succeeded in getting the machine going again
2)Does anyone have spare parts for these machines. eg spare sprockets would save some work, the various drive belts also look quite old. I will happily pay for parts and courier charges to get any spares available
3)biggest concern is the reassembly of the thicknesser and most concerning is the setting of the thicknesser bed which i had to loosen completely to remove the damaged sprockets. The various posts and links Hemsby and others provided dont describe how to do this if the mechanism is dismantled. ANY SUGGESTIONS or recommendations what to watch out for

 

[SurreyHills]

If yours is the old style machine with sprockets in each corner they are difficult to source. You can get them in the UK from one of the Metabo dealers but would advise sending them a photo of what you want. They can then contact Metabo to see if they can source them. I paid about £5 per sprocket when I needed to replace mine a few years ago from Lawson-HIS in Southampton.

With regards to levelling the bed I wound all 4 corners down to the bottom completely with the drive chain not attached to the sprockets. Then used a digital caliper to check the height to the top was the same in each corner (on my very old model one I used the bracing bars that hold the sides together as the reference point). If you need to adjust a corner it's trial and error as raising/lowering one corner affects all the others. So make minor adjustments and keep checking all 4 corners. Once you have it level then reattach the drive chain to the sprockets.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Nick b]

This thread seems to be dated but pretty relevent to me right now. hope some of you are still posting on here

so far I have had easy success with thicknessing stock but could use some tips with setup for planing stock flat.

I seem to be missing one of the screws where the outfield table locks in to for alignment I have spoke with metabo and have the missing part on the way already.

I can lock the table in to place with the the bristol levers in to the same position aslong as i center the hole in to the gap.

Roger mentioned the ability to adjust the out feed table with grub screws.
where are these screws located


it seems like my out feed table might be slightly to high either that or the blades need to be higher. when i lower the infeed table to make a cut so the blades are just making contact with the wood, it takes quite a hefty chunk off and usually results in some good bit of snipe on the end of the board. i also noticed after a few passes that the planed face became slightly angled.

Im assuming the tip of the blades should be level with the outeed table.

any tips from Roger or anyone else woud be most appreciated.