Elektra Beckum PK200 v. Scheppach 2010

[matt]

Today I was lucky enough to have tracked down an EB PK200 and Scheppach 2010 both in the same showroom (side by side in fact). An ideal opportunity to sample both before buying... This was the first time that I'd seen the Scheppach in the flesh whereas I have seen the PK200 once before about a week ago.

I was already keen on the PK200 from my previous viewing but was drawn to the Scheppach by the extra few centimetres of cutting width (without side extensions) and the induction motor. Having now seen them both together I was disappointed by the Scheppach.

I thought I was summarise my observations because I know that these two saws are often compared by prospective purchasers:

• Scheppach rip fence clamping mechanism seemed superior to the PK200 in that it uses quick release handles rather than a screw mechanishm. However, I could not fault the action of the PK200 clamp screw except I managed to break the plastic handle off to reveal a desperately inadequate but easily remedied design.

• The Scheppach's fine adjustment on the fence is a nice touch; however, the fence on the PK200 slides so smoothly by comparison to the Scheppach that it is equally easy to make very fine adjustments by simply tapping the lightly tensioned fence in to the precise location.

• I was keen on the fold-down side extension table on the Scheppach (in theory); however, having seen it, I think that Elektra Beckum have taken a far more thorough approach to extending the capacity of the saw by using extension rails.

• I still found myself drawn toward the queitness of the induction motor of the Scheppach until I thought some more and realised that the sound of wood being sawn by one of these machines tends to be the noisiest thing!

• Elektra Beckum have been clever in ensuring that all the contact points feel good. It does not always follow that real quality exists but I've not reason to doubt on this occasion.

• The mitre fence (whilst generally viewed as a bit of a waste of time) was far superior on the PK200. An all-metal arrangement with very clear measurements by contrast to the Sheppach's nasty plastic affair which, on the display machine, was broken. There was a screw thread to clamp the mitre but the leading edge was located (or not in this case) by a plastic lug.

In fairness to the Scheppach, it did not help that the rise and fall and tilt mechanisms also did not work on the display machine. The dust extraction port was also cracked, and the blade cover kept drooping down against the table surface because the clamp would not hold it. Also, the fine adjuster would not work. All in all, a poorly assembled display model.

I would be interested in any similar or contrasting opinions from current users. In particular, it would be useful to know how many PK200 users find the motor noise intolerably loud.

Cheers

 

[ikd]

I cannot comment on either of these table saws, however, I have moved from a table saw that had a brush motor to one that has an induction motor. You will notice the difference with the induction motor - it is smoother and quieter.

The induction motors seem to be more powerful on table saws than an equivalent brush motor'd saw.

 

[frank]

the thing with the induction motor is you can talk with it running 8)

frank

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Matt

I have made it a policy, wherever possible, not to buy tools with brush motors.

When I fire up my tablesaw, there is a pleasing sound emitted from the motor. :roll: I have to remind myself to put on my ear defenders. You wouldn't get that with a brush motor.

HTH.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Noel]

I agree with Neil. Over the last 5 yrs or so my buying policy has been no brush motors and no aluminium. Cast iron, especially on tables and fences, and quiet friendly non-screaming induction motors. Although I've a benchtop thicknesser it'll soon be replaced.

Noel

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Noel

Although I've a benchtop thicknesser it'll soon be replaced.

Have a look at the Makita 2012, it is excellent.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Noel]

Hi Neil, yes I've used the Makita, nice machine, marginally quieter than my Delta, but it's still got a screaming banshee for a motor. Both good thicknessers. As I said, induction motor and cast iron will eventually replace it.

Noel

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Noel

....but it's still got a screaming banshee for a motor.

IIRC for noise, at 83dB, it won best in class.

I would have bought the Jet, but space dictated that I have a benchtop. I really don't think the finish could be any better.

Cheers
Neil

 

[matt]

I agree with Neil. Over the last 5 yrs or so my buying policy has been no brush motors and no aluminium. Cast iron, especially on tables and fences, and quiet friendly non-screaming induction motors. Although I've a benchtop thicknesser it'll soon be replaced.

Noel

But at what cost? The EB PK200 and Scheppach TS2010 are in the sub £400 market where there has to be trade offs. No cast iron tables and fences in this market. Nevertheless, varying levels of top, fence, etc quality that dictates accuracy where perhaps a trade off on motor noise (given the purpose of the item) is a good area to sacrifice?

 

[tombo]

Matt,

I have just been discussing the merits of the pk200 i used to own with another forum member. You may recall i have now replaced it with an xcalibur 804...

As you say the fit and finish of the PK is very good and every part of the machine just worked though that does not mean it is a perfect machine

Although its not an induction motor it is a very good brush motor has a slow start and found it much quieter than the 150 quid saw it replaced.

Although the fence looks disappointing it actually worked very well and the screw clamping was no problem at all

You absolutely need the stand but i suppose you could make something yourself, it was rubbish on the workmate.

You also need the rails and extension table as the standard table is just too narrow. oddly the extension table has a scale on it, but as you often have to re position the extension table i cant see much use for it. Tape measure and a test cut is the only sure way. If the cut can be made on the main table then the scale on that is fine.

I did splash out on the out feed gizmo but when i got it i realised how narrow it was i sent it straight back to axminster. They were very good they collected free, and gave a full refund. When you think that this saw is also intended to be thrown in the back of a car i suppose the narrow fold up out feed thing makes sense. But I got by with a roller stand.

For me the most awkward aspect of the machine was the sliding table. This is easily located and removed by two lever clamps but it was very easy to put it back on the machine at a skew and i could often spend ten minutes lining it up. And as i have such a small area to work i do not have the space to keep it on all the time.

Setting the blade height was also a problem in that it cant be locked. If you set it accurately for a tenon shoulder then the vibrations would make the blade drop slightly, very annoying. In the end I made a wooden wedge to jam the adjustment handle and that fixed the problem

The final niggle was the mitre slot is in a removable section of the table that has to come out when you change the blade. So there is a possibility that you can put it back, out of whack. Once i realised this i always made sure that I had full contact along the right hand edge once it was snugged down and that seemed to sort it out

I do wish i could have kept the saw because it was so portable, as now that i know its faults i could make it work quite well. But my excalibur is better in every respect so i don't real miss it. Ironically the xcalibur cost less the the pk once i added all the extras...

hopefully someone else will describe the schepach in use

Hope that helps
Tom

 

[matt]

Thanks, Tombo. A very useful insight in to the good and the bad with the PK200. Interesting that you should mention the Xcalibur... I've been doing a bit of research on the Xcalibur range this afternoon; however, after yesterday's revealing shopping trip I don't feel comfortable ordering one without seeing it first. A 225 mile trip to Woodford's is not really viable.

 

[Noel]

I agree with Neil. Over the last 5 yrs or so my buying policy has been no brush motors and no aluminium. Cast iron, especially on tables and fences, and quiet friendly non-screaming induction motors. Although I've a benchtop thicknesser it'll soon be replaced.

Noel

But at what cost? The EB PK200 and Scheppach TS2010 are in the sub £400 market where there has to be trade offs. No cast iron tables and fences in this market. Nevertheless, varying levels of top, fence, etc quality that dictates accuracy where perhaps a trade off on motor noise (given the purpose of the item) is a good area to sacrifice?

Good point, budget is important. All very well telling folks what to buy and not taking personal circumstances into consideration. Although buying 2nd hand can offer bigger scope.

Rgds

Noel

 

[matt]

Having read numerous threads on the Xcaliburs it seems as though they're all good but the differences in spec are a little unclear...

I'm erring towards the 805 because it seems to be basically the same machine as the 804 aside from the following differences/questions:

1. The 804 has a 50" rip capacity compared to the 805's 30". However, I don't think I can accomodate what seems to add up to a 60" wide saw in my workshop. Therefore, on this count, the 805 seems more suitable.

2. The 804 has a Beisymer style fence and, whilst it looks more purposeful than the 805's, I believe that key point is that it is a reliable and respected method of using long rails to accomodate a large rip capacity? Or, to put it another way, the 805's style of fence is just as accurate and easy to use (albeit it does not afford the (unsuitable for me) rip capacity of the 804)?

3. The 805 seems to have an aluminium left hand sliding table. All the pics of the 805 on the web do not really show this very clearly; however, from what I can see it is simply there to be used in conjunction with the mitre fence to support when cross-cutting. Is this correct? The 804 does not have a sliding table.

4. The 805 comes with a cast iron table - simple as that. The 804 features list on the Woodford site suggests that cast iron is an option at £50 more. If it is an option, what is the "standard" table material?!

5. The 804 features list describes a left of right blade tilt. Not mentioned on the 805 features; however, I am guessing that it must be the same?

If anyone has a decent picture of an 805, I'd be really grateful if they could post it.

One last thought... The measurements for these machines are all imperial. Mostly not a cause for concern, except the arbor diameter of 5/8ths. Equates to 16mm but can anyone confirm that a 16mm blade really will fit?

Cheers

 

[Philly]

Matt
With the 50 inch rails you can cut them down easily enough to a more "workshop friendly" length. Useful info if you want that saw but think it won't fit.
Philly

 

[martyn2]

Hi matt i have the 802 that has a 5/8 arbor and got some of theses

http://www.axminster.co.uk/name/5%2F8/s ... -23230.htm

its the reducing brushes i now use 30mm bore blades that now incresed the range and can get a 5/8 dado blades as well

martyn

 

[matt]

Matt
With the 50 inch rails you can cut them down easily enough to a more "workshop friendly" length. Useful info if you want that saw but think it won't fit.
Philly

Does that not make the saw in to an expensive 805? (albeit a few other differences). Or, is the fence that good that it's worth going to the expense?

 

[craylad]

I to was torn between the EB PK200 and the 2010. I decided on the 2010 because a Poolewood had it in stock with all the bits for £645.

Assembling it didn't take too long. There were a couple of things not right. The measure on the side extension was reading the wrong way. It took me a few minutes of headscratching before realising that it just needed sliding out and putting back in the right way around. One of the clips that hold the table to the base had broken but this was soon rectified by a phone call to the supplier who apologised and sent two in the post the following day.

The main bulk of my time has been in setting it up right. The sliding table is very awkward to align easily as you have to keep removing the rail to adjust the bolts that level the sliding table with the main table. Then it took ages getting the sliding table running parallel with the blade so I could cut pieces at 90 degrees, shims are used for this. The outfeed table has a slight lip on one of the joins causing some pieces running over it to catch (very dodgy) so another call to the supplier I think.

I have yet to use it in anger but with these niggles ironed out I am sure it will be up to the task. I just wish that the manual was clearer on the setting up part. The motor is nice and quiet though compared to my old Draper.

I am thinking of finding a way of adding another side extension to increase the width of cut which I am sure could be achieved with the help of a friend of mine who has an engineering workshop. He also being useful in making a router plate to replace the way of fixing my router to my Record RPMS-R router table as I was not very keen on the clamping method used. I realised this recently to my expense when I was setting up a Trend mitre lock bit. When running the piece against the fence it tilted slightly and caught the bit which then pulled the router from the clamps which made the bit catch the fence. Of course the bit came off worse and bent by about 2 thou. £50 up the swannee.

Oh well the joys of woodworking eh!