Easiest Blade and Chisel Sharpening

[sammy.se]

Are those coloured diamond plates you see in Screwfix , Wickes etc any good?

I must admit, I use Paul seller's sand paper method because I'm daunted by all the stone/plate options.

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[Jacob]

.. I'm daunted by all the stone/plate options.

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If I was going to recommend one stone it'd probably be this https://www.manomano.co.uk/catalogue/p/ ... on-1388826
which was more or less bog standard (or variations, other brands) before the sharpening craze kicked off.
PS One stone would last for life for ordinary woodwork purposes, as long as you don't get into the crackpot fashion for flattening everything!

 

[thetyreman]

the diamond plates are worth it, I got them very early on and saw them as a long term investment, it's great because I've never needed another system, just buy coarse medium and fine stones mount them in some plywood or solid wood, make a strop and you're good to go, it works.

 

[guineafowl21]

Board with a strip glued underneath so I can clamp it in the vice.

On the board is an Axminster Rider 400 and 1000 grit diamond plate (double-sided). Also glass cleaner, rag, strip of shoe leather stapled on, and a green buffing compound stick. Nearby is a small blade holder (flat stick with slot in it).

Sharpen as per Paul Sellers.

Want to refurbish old chisels, or flatten abused plane soles? Wrap some decent AlOx paper round the diamond plate, say 120, then 240.

This system works, and is not expensive. It also gets used to sharpen kitchen and butchery knives. You may find yourself wishing you’d brought it with you when invited round to friends’ houses, and are asked to help carve the roast (how do people put up with using such hopelessly blunt knives?)

 

[nabs]

bp122 it honestly isn't as complicated as the internet makes it appear

My advice, as a fellow beginner, is that If you don't have access to someone who can show you how to do it then this video series on sharpening is comprehensive, straight forward and easy to follow:

https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/sh ... and-tools/

£26 well spent if it means you can escape the maddening world of internet sharpening debates (you can easily spend several times that amount on sharpening paraphernalia that you will never use - I did!)

Having said that, if you'd rather save the money, his advice is essentially the same as D_W and jacob above: for most jobs he just uses a couple of oil stones (one rough and one smooth, or a single stone with two sides) and sharpens free hand. It doesn't take long to get the hang of it.

 

[sammy.se]

So I needn't worry about flattening the stones? I see YouTubers rub stones together, presumably to make them flat?

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[guineafowl21]

Not if it’s a diamond plate. You buy a chisel. You buy a stone to sharpen the chisel. You buy a flattener to flatten the stone... I don’t know why she swallowed a fly, perhaps she’ll die.

 

[sammy.se]

Thanks
I do like it when things are made simple!

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[Jacob]

Not if it’s a diamond plate. You buy a chisel. You buy a stone to sharpen the chisel. You buy a flattener to flatten the stone... I don’t know why she swallowed a fly, perhaps she’ll die.

Except you don't need to flatten the stone. I did one once out of curiosity but there was no particular advantage. I've also had newish flat stones but the slow development of a hollow is no prob.
It's all part of the modern sharpening mythology, except jigs don't work on hollow stones, which is one very good reason for not using a jig, rather than wasting time (and stone) by flattening them.
PS or to put it another way - we were shown how to sharpen in woodwork classes at school (circa 1956). Didn't do much woodwork for years. Went around the houses but ended up doing it as per school - because it's easiest, quickest, cheapest, etc etc. Didn't appreciate it then, do now 60 years later!

 

[Rich C]

I use three diamonds stones and a strop. It works fine. For rehabilitating ebay tools I use 60-120 grit paper on top of a stone then the diamond stones as usual. It seems to work.

 

[sammy.se]

My only problem with free hand sharpening is that I always end up with a curved bevel, and I am not consistent with the angle, I end up blunting the blades on the higher grit, so it takes forever.

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[Woody2Shoes]

+1 for diamonds - I see no point using anything less tough. I've had excellent results over a couple of years with the Ultex stones e.g.: https://www.its.co.uk/pd/210082-8''-x-3 ... 210082.htm
They sometimes sell them even cheaper than this on promotion - although it looks like they're currently out of stock on this particular one.

I also sometimes use wet and dry (body shops use very fine grits - so look at Halfords or online) paper on a scrap piece of granite.

I use a CBN wheel for sharpening turning chisels.

IMHO diamond plates and CBN/diamond wheels are the pinnacle of evolution as far as sharpening gear - they don't need dressing/flattening, they last a long time if used with care, they cut fast and clean and you don't have to mess about soaking them in water/oil or any of that time-wasting mullarkey.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

My only problem with free hand sharpening is that I always end up with a curved bevel, and I am not consistent with the angle, I end up blunting the blades on the higher grit, so it takes forever.

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I think that there are many who would say that a curved bevel is actually the best thing you could achieve! Even with a fine grit, the cutting power of a diamond is sufficient to quickly recover an inadvertently dubbed edge.

 

[bp122]

bp122 it honestly isn't as complicated as the internet makes it appear

My advice, as a fellow beginner, is that If you don't have access to someone who can show you how to do it then this video series on sharpening is comprehensive, straight forward and easy to follow:

https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/sh ... and-tools/

£26 well spent if it means you can escape the maddening world of internet sharpening debates (you can easily spend several times that amount on sharpening paraphernalia that you will never use - I did!)

Having said that, if you'd rather save the money, his advice is essentially the same as D_W and jacob above: for most jobs he just uses a couple of oil stones (one rough and one smooth, or a single stone with two sides) and sharpens free hand. It doesn't take long to get the hang of it.

It does seem like a good video. but I can't justify spending on it now. Perhaps I'll stick to your summary of it and follow Jacob and D_W for now.

Board with a strip glued underneath so I can clamp it in the vice.

On the board is an Axminster Rider 400 and 1000 grit diamond plate (double-sided). Also glass cleaner, rag, strip of shoe leather stapled on, and a green buffing compound stick. Nearby is a small blade holder (flat stick with slot in it).

Sharpen as per Paul Sellers.

Want to refurbish old chisels, or flatten abused plane soles? Wrap some decent AlOx paper round the diamond plate, say 120, then 240.

This system works, and is not expensive. It also gets used to sharpen kitchen and butchery knives. You may find yourself wishing you’d brought it with you when invited round to friends’ houses, and are asked to help carve the roast (how do people put up with using such hopelessly blunt knives?)

No a bad setup there. How long have you had the stones for?

the diamond plates are worth it, I got them very early on and saw them as a long term investment, it's great because I've never needed another system, just buy coarse medium and fine stones mount them in some plywood or solid wood, make a strop and you're good to go, it works.

Cheers, where did you buy them from and which ones?

...without having to spend most of the available woodworking time sharpening the tools and not being able to do anything with it!

This is partly a matter of experience and skill and not so much about the method used. Every method is capable of achieving good, great or stellar edges in just a few minutes in the hands of an experienced user who doesn't waste time doing unnecessary steps.

Thank you for the thoughtful and systematic response, ED65

 

[D_W]

The method that sellers uses is foolish - avoid it.

Howso?

At the risk of getting into a discussion where people will consider my principles too faffy and precise (they are not), the sellers method is fine for sloppy sharpening, but there are two problems with it:
1) it is not careful enough with edge and bevel geometry and will make things like nailing camber (if you're going to finish off of the plane more difficult). The issue with the geometry isn't at the tip, but the rounded bevel in wedging tools like chisels is problematic, it will have you doing extra work unless you're very careful about leaving it long and thin (the actual rounding at the very edge is fine, and perhaps desirable from the perspective of picking where your edge will fail).
2) it has you doing a whole bunch of work to metal that really has no part in the performance of the tool (namely, you end up polishing a whole bunch of the bevel that doesn't need it)

It's both quicker and far more precise to remove a flat or hollow bevel (I'm more of a traditionalist, but I cannot argue just how good a CBN wheel is - even the wheels that are $50 from china are fabulous - the grinder used does not need to be large or expensive), and use fewer stones, and for the ultimate work, slower stones precisely where you want to use them.

Every person I've ever seen who does fine work with a lot of hand tools is much more precise about their sharpening, and economical with effort. Not more deliberate (not slower), but more precise.

I don't wish to get in a fanboy battle - I am a fanatical sharpener of things sort of as a hobby, it goes well beyond tools. Fanatical not only in sharpness, but quickness of it, too. But, I also work almost entirely by hand, and doing as well as possible with sharpening (within the constraint that it still needs to be quick) helps hand work greatly, because you will be sharpening chisels, planes, strange little irons, little knives, all kinds of things. The methods that actually work the best for actual work generally coincide with making the least effort, but controlling edge and bevel geometry by keeping the bevel out of the way but still giving you an allowance to be less than perfect at the very edge (finer, slower stones for that work- slightly rounding the very last fraction of the edge both for strength and to confirm that you have, in fact, removed all of the wear that was present before sharpening).

 

[Jacob]

My only problem with free hand sharpening is that I always end up with a curved bevel, and I am not consistent with the angle, I end up blunting the blades on the higher grit, so it takes forever.

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I think that there are many who would say that a curved bevel is actually the best thing you could achieve! Even with a fine grit, the cutting power of a diamond is sufficient to quickly recover an inadvertently dubbed edge.

Neither desirable nor undesirable - if you sharpen freehand then a rounded bevel is more or less unavoidable.
Or rather - a flat bevel is difficult. But no problem at all as long as the edge is at 30º or whatever chosen angle. The bevel is not rounded over it's rounded under 30º.

.....but the rounded bevel in wedging tools like chisels is problematic,...... 

Really? Why? The wedgiest chisel of all (mortice) is much better with a very rounded bevel and it's no prob with the others as far as I can tell.
I think the rounded bevel thing comes from the perfectly good advice in the books - to avoid rounding over, or dubbing. People extend this to exclude rounding under and a whole generation of woodworkers make sharpening much more difficult for themselves!

 

[D_W]

mortising seems (to me) to work better when the bevel is flat. IF deep penetration is desirable, flat and shallower with only the end of the chisel being slightly rounded (to protect the edge and keep it from failing).

There's probably a protracted discussion about what's really critical (and it's not so much shape - as in, if you can keep your entire rounded bevel around I would have a flat bevel - or less steep than that, we're going to see something similar).

Most older chisels that I've gotten with a rounded bevel from use (including old used japanese chisels from japan) show a lack of success via laziness allowing the primary bevel to become too steep, the final edge follows by being as steep or even steeper.

Mortising, i'm sure, depends a lot on the method. I ride the bevel, which is easiest to do when it's flat. Only the last little bit gets a tiny bit of rounding (like a tiny fraction of a millimeter).

 

[thetyreman]

Only the last little bit gets a tiny bit of rounding (like a tiny fraction of a millimeter).

might want to get that microscope out

 

[Jacob]

...
Mortising, i'm sure, depends a lot on the method. I ride the bevel, which is easiest to do when it's flat. Only the last little bit gets a tiny bit of rounding (like a tiny fraction of a millimeter).

Well you have chosen the difficult route I think!
Morticing is easy if you do the trad thing which is to do only vertical cuts down the face of the previous cut. Taking off as much or as little as the timber and your mallet arm strength will allow - in your terms 'riding the face (flat)'.
Waste gets pushed out, no levering required until you get to clean out the corners of a blind mortice when the rounded bevel suddenly becomes useful as a "moving fulcrum". A straight flat bevel wouldn't do it nearly so well and is much more difficult to freehand grind/hone. Pointless in fact.

 

[D_W]

Only the last little bit gets a tiny bit of rounding (like a tiny fraction of a millimeter).

might want to get that microscope out

I realize there's a bit of piss taking here, but the scope is probably a useful thing for someone to eliminate things like unfinished edges or chipping. It's not needed.

The issue of rounding only the last little bit a few extra degrees is extremely useful, though (rounding more is a waste of time and results in a less good edge). Is a freehand version of taking just a few strokes with a guide clicked up (without wasting so much time) and allows you to rely on a slow final stone (fast would just enlarge the bevel and hassle you faster) to leave a fine edge. Slow stones are generally hard, lower maintenance, and tolerate of anything you'll sharpen from plane blades to gouges to tiny knives.

Someone not finishing off of a plane or never paring a show surface isn't going to care about what you learn under the scope, and that's fine. I didn't get a scope for wood. I got a scope because a few years ago, I was flipping japanese stones (from japan) and razors. The only way to really grade the former and ensure the latter is sharpened properly is a quick view through the scope. It's turned out to be fun to use for other things, but not vital. For grading fine natural stones, it's vital. For the razors, it's considerate (if you're selling a razor as sharpened, it ought to be defect free).