e-scooter trial, London

[Sachakins]

No you have complete missed the point:
Cycling is very safe causing little risk either to cyclists themselves or to other road users.
EXCEPT cyclists are extremely vulnerable to motor vehicles.
https://www.accidentclaimsadvice.org.uk/common-causes-of-cycling-accidents/

Except that in trying to evade a wayward cyclist another accident happens.
So the accident statistic is vehicular, were in reality it was cyclist who initiated it and then legged it (pedaled it?)

 

[Jacob]

So why do i need to pay twice? Council Tax, and road tax for car/motorbike.

Because you live in a house AND run a vehicle. If you ran two vehicles you'd have to pay three times.

 

[Jacob]

Except that in trying to evade a wayward cyclist another accident happens.
So the accident statistic is vehicular, were in reality it was cyclist who initiated it and then legged it (pedaled it?)

Yes that happens all the time! I go out on my bike and I hear great pile-ups behind me. I just pedal off as fast as I can.

 

[thetyreman]

So why do i need to pay twice? Council Tax, and road tax for car/motorbike.

it's just the way the system is, who said life was fair?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If it were fair the money raised from motorists would be spent on the roads, which would then be perfect.

 

[Sachakins]

Because you live in a house AND run a vehicle. If you ran two vehicles you'd have to pay three times.

So, given your logic that I run a vehicle, then it must follow tgat e-scooters,e-bikes and any assistive technology, which includes cycles by the way, should also pay road tax.

Also why if I have more than one vehicle, why should I pay tax on each of them, after all I can only use one at a time. As if have 3, I don't contribute 3 times the congestion, nor 3 times the emmision nor 3 times the polution, so why should i have to contribute 3 times.

 

[Sachakins]

it's just the way the system is, who said life was fair?

Exactly, so why do cyclist scream unfair if they are asked to pay. As you say who said life was fair.....

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Also why if I have more than one vehicle, why should I pay tax on each of them, after all I can only use one at a time. As if have 3, I don't contribute 3 times the congestion, nor 3 times the emission nor 3 times the pollution, so why should I have to contribute 3 times.

My argument as well. I for years I used to run a motorbike, a Volvo estate and a flat bed Transit. I used the bike by choice, the other two from necessity. Had I had to get rid of one, it would have been the one that caused the least pollution and congestion. It should have been me that was taxed, not the vehicles.

 

[Jacob]

Basically vehicle tax isn't "hypothecated" i.e. collected to finance a particular project. It's just tax which goes to the treasury.
It's also a form of social engineering in that there are different rates according to size, emissions and so on.
Bikes are considered highly desirable in terms of society, health, road management costs, etc so unless this changes dramatically they are unlikely to be taxed, not least because it would be a disincentive, but also because the next obvious step would be to tax pedestrians too.
Cyclists don't "scream unfair if they are asked to pay" - they've never been asked! It's only a few motorists who are screaming unfair!
Unused multiple vehicles don't have to pay fuel tax while not being used, if that's any consolation!.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I don’t think it is possible to create a taxation system that everyone will feel is fair. The tobacco industry has produced data that shows the tax on cigarettes amounts to more than the cost of the health problems smoking creates. I’ve no idea if they were right.

On the topic of Road Tax (isn’t it now VED?) I thought it was now based on emission. As cycles and escooters don’t create any they are exempt as are electric cars?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

On the subject of e-scooters.

This is not to make a point either pro or anti, just to point something out. E-scooters have already been a factor in one fatality, sadly.

Emily Hartridge: Deflated tyre 'caused YouTuber's e-scooter crash' - BBC News

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I don’t think it is possible to create a taxation system that everyone will feel is fair. The tobacco industry has produced data that shows the tax on cigarettes amounts to more than the cost of the health problems smoking creates. I’ve no idea if they were right.

On the topic of Road Tax (isn’t it now VED?) I thought it was now based on emission. As cycles and escooters don’t create any they are exempt as are electric cars?

The money raised by tobacco taxes and the money saved because of smokers dying younger way outweighs the the cost to the NHS.
If the whole population reverted to bicycles tomorrow, next month they'd be taxed. The money has to come from somewhere.

 

[Droogs]

So why do i need to pay twice? Council Tax, and road tax for car/motorbike.

You don't. When you pay the vehicle excise duty, you are paying for the privelage of being allowed to have your car sit on a public road and for nothing else whether it is in a condition to be used or not. No part of the tax is officially meant to be used for the upkeep or roadways that is covered by 2 other methods. The first is by an allocation of budge percentage given by central government to your local council and from taxes raised by them directly from you as they are legally responsible for the upkeep of roadways except for motorways which are the responsibility of central government through the highways agency.
Therefore it is entirely reasonable that other people who place a vehicle of any type on the road pay for the privilege as well regardless of its type. When i lived in Zurich I had to pay road tax to be able to use my bike and this included a 3rd party insurance coverage element to it and you got a sticker for your bike like a tax disc.

 

[Jake]

All non-Londoners should obviously be banned from our streets here because they are paid for by our council tax (and rates) and not by central government. Even more reason for me to cry about my VED.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Therefore it is entirely reasonable that other people who place a vehicle of any type on the road pay for the privilege as well regardless of its type.

If it's your second vehicle it's not on the road when your first one is - that's the point.

 

[Droogs]

doesn't matter, you are paying to use that particular vehicle not all the vehicles you own just the same if you have 2 cars you still pay 2 sets of tax.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

All non-Londoners should obviously be banned from our streets here because they are paid for by our council tax (and rates) and not by central government. Even more reason for me to cry about my VED.

I'm sure the rest of the Country's motorists would be delighted.

 

[Jacob]

I first saw e-scooters in Las Palmas (Canaries) and was really impressed. One, sometimes two on one scooter, floating past silently like something from a futuristic comic.
Obviously a really good idea and should be supported in every way.

 

[Blackswanwood]

If it's your second vehicle it's not on the road when your first one is - that's the point.

It could be though. One could be parked on the road while the other is being driven. A family member may be driving one while you drive the other.

 

[Sachakins]

You don't. When you pay the vehicle excise duty, you are paying for the privelage of being allowed to have your car sit on a public road and for nothing else whether it is in a condition to be used or not. No part of the tax is officially meant to be used for the upkeep or roadways that is covered by 2 other methods. The first is by an allocation of budge percentage given by central government to your local council and from taxes raised by them directly from you as they are legally responsible for the upkeep of roadways except for motorways which are the responsibility of central government through the highways agency.
Therefore it is entirely reasonable that other people who place a vehicle of any type on the road pay for the privilege as well regardless of its type. When i lived in Zurich I had to pay road tax to be able to use my bike and this included a 3rd party insurance coverage element to it and you got a sticker for your bike like a tax disc.

Mine does not sit on the public road, it sits on my drive, which is not public.
Anyhow the law does not distinguish where it is. The only two options are 1: Tax it or 2: SORN declaration. It has nothing to do with the public highway as you wrongly claim!