Dust extractor advice

[Alie Barnes]

Posted this in Tool review and just wanted a few turners opinions on dust extractors for a small workshop.

cheers all

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35421

 

[Jenx]

As Tam said in the referenced thread.... Bin the idea of shavings extraction, its dust you need to get rid of.

Camvac isn't expensive, I found. - I went for the cheapest one, I think its a 286 or something, and it, with a poseable hose, is fantastic. Does exactly what I want of it.

Shavings etc, : - dustpan & brush !! :wink:

 

[gasmansteve]

Do you have to empty the Camvac very often Alun? I have been using a workshop vac connected to a homemade cyclone and seems to work ok but I`ve never had a dedicated (ie proper) dust extractor to compare it with and as I also use my Powercap I`m not sure how efficient (or not) the cyclone/vac is at picking up the fine dust near the lathe :?:
Regards
Steve

 

[Jenx]

Hi Steve ... I guess its relative to how many hours actually turning ... I just empty it about once a month, and its only ever about half full at that.

Where I find it comes into its own , is at the sanding stages, where the real fine dust is generated... its a bit 'directional' in its collection-method.. but I find the poseable hose with the bellmouth to be really effective, as long as it is in 'close enough' to the workpiece.

When combined with a decend positive pressure mask / hood ( like the trend.. which I don't have incidentally ) -- It would be nigh-on perfect.
I have only top-end dust masks at the moment.. a trend type thing is on the cards though...

I loves me camvac ! ... great little machine !

8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[Alie Barnes]

Hi Steve ... I guess its relative to how many hours actually turning ... I just empty it about once a month, and its only ever about half full at that.

Where I find it comes into its own , is at the sanding stages, where the real fine dust is generated... its a bit 'directional' in its collection-method.. but I find the poseable hose with the bellmouth to be really effective, as long as it is in 'close enough' to the workpiece.

When combined with a decend positive pressure mask / hood ( like the trend.. which I don't have incidentally ) -- It would be nigh-on perfect.
I have only top-end dust masks at the moment.. a trend type thing is on the cards though...

I loves me camvac ! ... great little machine !

8) 8) 8) 8)

do you have it on just when your sanding or through out the entire turning sesion?

 

[cornucopia]

I have two camvac's Alie and there mainly used during sanding but if i'm turning somthing dusty i will have them on during turning too. the bag filters do clog fast a "cyclone pre bin" would be ideal or like me clean out the filters every month or so.( a 15 minute job for the two machines)

 

[Jenx]

Same as George, Alie .. but I have just the one Camvac.

99% of the time, just 'sanding' phase.
I don't think of it as a chip-collector, although it will 'hoover' at the end of a session. It's much more of a dust-sucker-upper, which is the nasty stuff you want rid of.

 

[matt]

From a turning point of view, is s single motor Camvac really up to the job of capturing dust? I noted the comment about the inlet being close enough but would a twin motor not make a significant difference to proximity and have the ability to catch chippings too - perhaps making it a very worthwhile investment?

 

[duncanh]

I have two camvac's Alie and there mainly used during sanding but if i'm turning somthing dusty i will have them on during turning too. the bag filters do clog fast a "cyclone pre bin" would be ideal or like me clean out the filters every month or so.( a 15 minute job for the two machines)

I've just added a pre-bin with a Thien separator. Posted about it on the other thread

 

[cornucopia]

thanks Duncan

i'll see if i can make a bit of room to squeeze one of those in somewhere

 

[duncanh]

forgot to say - the dustbin is a standard one from B&Q. The plans mention using a router to make the circles but, of course, since I had a lathe at hand I used that.

The dustbin comes with a lid and that'll be useful when it comes time to empty the contents as I'll have to carry it through the house to my wheelie bin.

 

[Jenx]

From a turning point of view, is s single motor Camvac really up to the job of capturing dust?

.

If it wasn't - they'd hardly get away with selling it to do just that :wink:

Like any centrifugal fan, it's good at pushing against a resistance ( the hose & the filter bag etc ), but not so fantastic at "Volume", which is where an axial fan wins out. hence the need to have it close enough to the workpiece to ensure it captures what you need it to capture.
Obviously, when you 'tandem' it up.. it'll perform slightly better ( although not 2x as well.. thats not how physics works ), and by the same token if you quadrupled it up, it'd work better again.
Its not for collecting chips & shavings... but then again, nobody's lungs get shot by sniffing up chippings ...

Its like anything in life Matt .. the more cash you're prepared to throw at something, the better that 'something' should be at the given job...
" Champagne Tastes / Milkbottle Money " kind of thing.
A Lada isn't a Bentley, but they'll both manage to run you to asda's and bring home your shopping.. just the Bentley 'should' mean you're more comfortable on the trip.

Therefore.. of course it's up to the job of extracting dust while turning.. or more accurately, sanding your turning ....
Thats exactly what it's designed to do...

If it didn't work - a company as well known as they are in our circles, would have been 'well found-out' by now.
Most owners swear by them.. George has two !
:wink:

HTH 8)

 

[matt]

It's not so much that I was thinking/suggesting that the Camvac single motor is no good; I was speculating that it was not designed for the setup that I'm picturing from your description (i.e. capturing dust from free air space versus being plumbed in to the tool so to speak). I appreciate that even plumbed in extraction ultimately targets free air space but it is usually in a highly concentrated area around a blade or similar rather than such an open space around a lathe.

I've no reason to doubt that it does work but I am curious to quantify the added benefit 2 or even 3 motors brings.

PS. I tried using my Trend T30AF near the lathe when sanding today and it was not great. Spec wise it's not dissimilar to the Camvac.

 

[Jenx]

Haven't seen a Trend one, TBH .. but I use the Cammy in the way it was designed to be used really ... and can't fault it.
'Does exactly what it says on the tin', as they say.

Twin motor versions would be more of a relevance to multi-point extraction IMHO, a single motor version, on a single pick-up point ( i.e - 'posed' at the workpiece mounted on the lathe ) is more than man enough for the job.

Can't comment on the design / performance of the Trend one, as I've not seen it.... whats the spec ?

EDIT : - Just looked at the spec of it ... The Airflow rates are approx the same, the amount of vacuum pulled is approx the same, .... I'm suspicious of the trend's hose at 38mm OD, against the camvac's 65mm. The 38mm Hose will offer a much greater resistance ( the Trend ), over a given length - when comparing machines like-for-like.
I'm tempted to say that this reason that you may be disappointed, Matt.
Are you using a full 5mtr of hose to try and extract , and is it a single point of extraction ?
With very similar motor / fan performances.. the Camvac is going to perform considerably better due to much less resistance in the hose / inlet, being almost twice the diameter.

 

[cornucopia]

I started with a single motor camvac and found i had to have it very close to my lathe (no more than 5' away) but i found that the dust would exit the piece in more than one place- the exit port on the machine made my workshop very hot- and it was noisy to be in the same room as it.

I know have a twin motor and a triple which are located the other side of a partition wall and ducted in. these work great as i can have both hose's positioned to capture virtually all the dust and the noise heat isn't in my working space- the length of ducting is about 12-15'

if you do duct any extractor make sure its earthed

 

[boysie39]

I have the record power 5000 and it is very powerful,but I think that unless the are plumed into a dedicated machine they are not much good in the way of collecting dust except when sanding.
I also have a Microclene hanging above the lathe + a large window which I can open and two rotating fans which blow the remainder of dust out the window,also a cooker hood close to the lathe.I also wear the Trend helmet and I also have a JSP
In hindsight I think it would be healthier to turn wet and invest in a good drying system,Probley cost more but would afford you the pleasure of seeing your products at a far later stage in your life.
REgards Boysie.

 

[mikec]

I have an older Record DX800i sucking through a collector box with two positionable hoses. Its OK, not great, for sanding and will suck shavings if they fall near enough. Above the lathe I have a Microclene 780 and use a Trend Airshield.

Its amazing how much dust collects on the Microclene filter.

My ideal would be a high volume low pressure extractor situated outside in a dedicated housing to reduce noise.

Regards,

Mike C

 

[matt]

My ideal would be a high volume low pressure extractor situated outside in a dedicated housing to reduce noise.

That was my earlier thought which would be ideal for use on a lathe and similar but not being able to use it for hand-held tools too is a factor for me.

 

[Jenx]

Which is... : a reasonably large cased axial fan, in a propiatery fixed ducted system. ..
a High Volume, Low pressure extract system.

If this were my 'business' then definately.
Its not though.. its a hobby, as it is for the biggest percentage of the turners here.
£1000 approx v £150 = No contest. :wink:

That was the point I was trying to make earlier ( clearly not very successfully :wink: )


And just to add .. especially as I was talking to Chas about this at the bash... The Microclean type units, whilst being very good.. are generally collecting airborne dust particles which are a percentage of what came right past your nose and mouth effectively.
They're another avenue of defence, but for goodness sake, don't think that 'becuase I've got one', that you've negated the danger. far far from it.
The biggest thing that you can do in your favour is, in my view.. and IIRC Chas's too... is to employ the use of a mask where there is a positive pressure being generated, to negate the ingress of airborne dust particulate beyond the face-seal of the mask.. i.e. the Trend / Powercap type of appliance.
I personally don't have one. I should.
If you are concerned about the health issues caused or aggravated by wood dust.. this is THE primary defence against it... the Positive pressure in the shield / mask sees to that.
The microcleans / extracts etc are all great, and all have a terrific part to play.. but are secondary to that positive pressure mask.

Ye pays yer money, and takes yer choice. :wink: