dust extraction

[paul-c]

christmas present was money to put towards a chip extractor and was hoping for advice from your experience.
i was looking at the axminster

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... 725305.htm

but is the more expensive camvac gv286w worth the extra money :?:

http://www.camvac.co.uk/

it will be mostly only be used for my lathe but very occasionally for router etc.
thanks paul

 

[CHJ]

Paul, if the unit has to reside in your lathe shop as opposed to outside then that type (axminster link) of unit is useless for dust extraction.

The filter level is only suitable for collecting chippings and will just act to spread the generated dust around the shop.

 

[paul-c]

sorry CHJ
should have explained i have already bought a Microclene MC400 .
the other chip collector will be to complement this unit - and if it helps dust extraction ,all the better. :lol:

 

[kasandrich]

You would need the optional extra filter for the Axminster or you will be sucking all the dust away from your work area and blowing it into the atmosphere, which is worse, and this will create excess work for your microclene.

Also I understand that type (the Axminster) are very noisy.

 

[Hans]

Paul,

I use something similar, the Axminster ADE1200.
I think I had more dust in my workshop with this extractor on than off.
The dust level only improved after I installed a fine dustfilter.
I would heed Chas suggestion, put it outside or use a fine particle filter.

An overview of dustcontrol in Hans' workshop
Hans

 

[CHJ]

sorry CHJ
should have explained i have already bought a Microclene MC400 .
the other chip collector will be to complement this unit - and if it helps dust extraction ,all the better. :lol:

Paul, I'm afraid your perception of dust control is somewhat awry, expecting your Microclean to be the main dust control source and anything else to be supplementary is the wrong way round.

Even in the best of circumstances of dust generated at the lathe the microclean will only be trapping dangerous dust at the same rate as your lungs unless you have a very good Airfed face mask.

In my LINK to dust control, I refer to an ambient air filter

1.*Install an Ambient Air Fine Dust filtering system in the workshop (it cleans the air eventually considerably reducing problem 2. above but your lungs are still doing the same thing in parallel if you are in the shop)

If a high volume chip type extractor is to be housed in the shop then you need the security of a pleated filter as shown in post above as a minimum.

My experience as one who is extremely allergic to certain dust/volatiles contact the only good extraction is one that dumps dust outside of the workshop.

Your Microclean is ideal to leave running after you leave the shop to finish polishing the air and leaving perfect conditions for a return to the shop and completing fine furniture finishing, it will do little to prevent you breathing dust leaving a spinning lathe.

 

[Paul.J]

Your Microclean is ideal to leave running after you leave the shop to finish polishing the air and leaving perfect conditions for a return to the shop and completing fine furniture finishing, it will do little to prevent you breathing dust leaving a spinning lathe.

So what is the point in a Microclene :?
As you say Chas you are still only breathing in the dust that is been created while you are working in that area.It doesn't clean the whole workshop,or does it.
Surely most of the dust will settle before it reaches the cleaner,so any movement in the shop after wil lift it again.
I just can't see the point in them.

 

[CHJ]

As you say Chas you are still only breathing in the dust that is been created while you are working in that area.It doesn't clean the whole workshop,or does it.
Surely most of the dust will settle before it reaches the cleaner,so any movement in the shop after wil lift it again.
I just can't see the point in them.

The point is Paul that the most dangerous dust as you know is that which you can't see, and most of that is still circulating long after you have stopped moving around the shop, an ambient air filter traps a proportion of this whilst you are working and continues to clean the air after you have left.
What proportion of 'floating' dust gets collected before it settles on a surface is down to size (air movement) of the unit, its placing etc.
An effective unit is worth its weight in gold in a finishing shop but I doubt one would add any safety value in mine where the air exchange rate is so high.

It frightens me how many people do not relate the amount of dust caught on an ambient filter with that they are breathing and don't bother to wear a mask. One of my near neighbors was cleaning his ambient air filter with a domestic vacuum cleaner :roll: had no concept of where the dust was going.

 

[Paul.J]

I'm still not convinced Chas.
I can see that it cleans some of the air after you have left the shop,but only the dust that is in reach of the cleaner,the rest will settle where it falls,and if like my shop as draughts,the dust will be air borne again.
Is there any point in having it on when you are working,as the dust will be flying everywhere,surely it is best to have an airshield on of some sort when you are at the lathe or whatever.
Just to have a microcleaner to catch the dust is of no use at all,while working,wihout other protection on such as the Airshield or other means.
I feel they give a false sense of security against dust control.

 

[CHJ]

Exactly Paul.J, they are very effective in a flatworld cabinet making shop with little or no machine induced dust, even then it is prudent to wear a face mask when sanding, the high volumes of dust inherent with on the lathe work of dry woods and sanding need a much more aggressive collection at source for self protection, all dust collected is a bonus in any shop but the relevance of particular methods needs careful consideration.

 

[cornucopia]

the smallest the human eye can see (without a microscope etc) is 5 micron- if you can see it floating in the air its 5 micron or bigger.the dust which is most dangerous to us is smaller than 5 micron as that is the dust which gets past our defence's and into our lungs
imo a microclean is part of a healthy workshop but it MUST be combined with a respirator and fine dust extractor.
my set up is a mc1200 on all day and 2 hours after turning has finished- a trend airshield worn all day- two camvac's on all the while i'm sanding or turning a problematic wood.

 

[PAC]

the smallest the human eye can see (without a microscope etc) is 5 micron

Apologies for being boring but the human eye, without any optical aids, can resolve particles down to around 0.1mm or 100 micrometres (microns). I used to be a professional electron microscopist...

 

[laird]

..........of my near neighbors was cleaning his ambient air filter with a domestic vacuum cleaner :roll: had no concept of where the dust was going.

Whilst not disagreeing with you, maybe he read the Axi instructions for the excellent Axminster MTM Air Filter"...in most cases a quick run over the pre-filter with the vacuum will suffice, together with a clean-up of the main filter once a month."

 

[paul-c]

wow i didn't realise how comlicated it could actually be to remove what i initially thought was just "dust extraction".
thanks for all the advice
so CHJ from what you have said and reading your other page (http://quest42.co.uk/woodwork/html/dust.html ) ,i would actually do better to forget about a chip collector and upgrade to something like the trend air shield or similar first of all.
cheers paul

 

[CHJ]

..........of my near neighbors was cleaning his ambient air filter with a domestic vacuum cleaner :roll: had no concept of where the dust was going.

Whilst not disagreeing with you, maybe he read the Axi instructions for the excellent Axminster MTM Air Filter"...in most cases a quick run over the pre-filter with the vacuum will suffice, together with a clean-up of the main filter once a month."

The point being. What type of filter is fitted to the average domestic vacuum cleaner and what does its exhaust do with the fine dust it sucks off the air cleaner?

I can't think of a more efficient way of re-distributing the dust collected by the ambient filter, I doubt many people dismount them and take the unit or its filters outside the shop to clean.

 

[CHJ]

wow i didn't realise how comlicated it could actually be to remove what i initially thought was just "dust extraction".
thanks for all the advice
so CHJ from what you have said and reading your other page (http://quest42.co.uk/woodwork/html/dust.html ) ,i would actually do better to forget about a chip collector and upgrade to something like the trend air shield or similar first of all.
cheers paul

An Airshield will certainly provide you with better personal lung protection than a chip extractor.

In a commercial shop the onus is on removing the dust at source and personal protection is a last resort if the extraction is failing to meet the standard.
In a home workshop doing that would probably cost you more than all the other shop equipment in total and be somewhat impractical, therefore personal protection becomes the prime safety measure.

 

[Jenx]

the smallest the human eye can see (without a microscope etc) is 5 micron

Apologies for being boring but the human eye, without any optical aids, can resolve particles down to around 0.1mm or 100 micrometres (microns). I used to be a professional electron microscopist...

.... And with my eyesight ... the 'human eye' can just about detect the peas, next to the carrots and roasties. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
( new varifocals are helping a bit though !.. another sign of getting old ! heh heh )..
I agree with whats been said about dust control ... the microclean type units are only 'part' of what should be seen as a bigger picture... and most people fit them 'high'.. so any good its doing is coming right up past your face ( and nose / mouth ) whilst you're in there. A +ve pressure mask is the best protection if possible.. with the backup of the other mechanical aids, as said.
As George mentions.. the 'best' work the microclean does is done long after you're gone out the shed / workshop, and its helping to cleanse the residuals that you've left in your wake.

Chip collector isn't really the way to go... unless you have a habit of snorting up the chips :wink:
Its the fine particulate that you need to worry about.

Good luck in getting sorted out.. keep us updated ! 8)

 

[dickm]

Chip collector isn't really the way to go... unless you have a habit of snorting up the chips :wink:

... or can't open the door because of the depth of the pile of chips/shavings inside

 

[Jenx]

I wonder if thats just an 'Aberdeenshire habit' Dick !
I suspect perhaps not ! :wink:

 

[miles_hot]

Will a 3-5hp fan pulling through a "mike" drop box collect the dust from the lathe or do I need a Camvac type vacuum cleaner arrangement for that?

Many thanks

Miles