Dust extraction

[braveheart]

:? Hi everyone, please can you pass on any advice about dust extractors, since I now seem to spend as many hours as is practical in my single car garage, on occasions to dim view of the management " she who must be obeyed, the war department, her indoors Sorry dear. I mean my dear wife. Who inccidentialy raise the issue of my working conditions and the amount of surface dust on just about every thing that dose not move, including me, the cheek of it! At this moment I use a full face mask and a 3M nose, mouth mask to prevent dust intake. In the short time that I have been turning I am well aware of the may, I suggest common names of Record, Camvac and Axminster. But you will perhaps know of more, so please, come of advise as even if it is just to keep the wife happy. I mean dust down. In dust full apprication many thanks

 

[wizer]

Well it sounds like your talking about fine dust. In which case you need an air filter. Axminster sell them and I believe there is a brand called Microlean? that turners use.

 

[Jenx]

Not sure if its entirely 'normal' .... I don't try to do anything whilst actually turning something... its the sanding that I was worried about, with the fine dust n'all .....
I bought a Camvac unit.. poseable hose, and the tubes etc which 'double it up' as a hoover.... and it works a treat.
I got it from Turner's Retreat... came overnight, for as good a price as I could get anywhere for the same thing.

Also use Alpha Solway E-Series BS EN149:2001 FFP3 E-3V Valved Dustmasks,

Whether thats enough or not.. I'm not sure.... I do fancy a Microclene too..
I'm sure I've seen one in some of Blister's and Cornucopia's pics.. probably more guys have them too.

The Dust's 'nae good' ... Chas's signature has an excellent link to Wood Hazard info.. its worth a read, another read.. and a read again and again.
Definately best to get something sorted out for yourself...

 

[penman]

Hi
I use the JSP Powercap, which I got from Turners Retreat. Marvelous piece of equipment, it keeps you cool with a nice breeze of cool clean air down over your face all the time. When you suffer with asthma as I do it pays to keep the air that you breathe as clean as possible and this unit does the job for me beautifully.

Malcolm (I do bowls as well) :lol: :lol:

 

[stevebuk]

i use the microclean system which i also bought from turners retreat, it works just great, and i also use a facemask when really dusty.

 

[PowerTool]

I've got the Axminster MTM and the amount of dust it filters out is quite scary :shock: - and the workshop still ends up covered in dust ; however,the finer dust is supposedly the worst for the human body,and this is what it stops.
I also have a shop vacuum,which I normally fasten to the toolrest when sanding,and wear disposable dustmasks when I feel the need.

Have (thankfully) never found any timber that causes any adverse reactions,but am much more careful with the likes of iroko,danto,padauk etc.

Andrew

 

[Dave Huxley]

I fitted a fairly powerful kitchen/bathroom type exraction fan about eight inches square into the side of my 10 x 8 workshop almost opposite the chuck area on my lathe, and made a box around it to bring it closer to the lathe.
It dischargers outside into open space/trees and wall and it works really great, I use it mostly when sanding. Its a cheapo idea but its effective.
Dave.

 

[boysie39]

In a 14'x10' shed i have a record 5000 a400 microclene from Stiles and Bates a cooker hood over the lathe which is great a JSP face mask 3M mask a Trend half Face Mask and dozens of disposable masks, and cant wait to get to use some of them soon. Also a small Earlex hoover which every workshop should have IMO. REgards Boysie

 

[duncanh]

See this thread for the system which I use

 

[Finial]

The trouble with the air cleaners that hang up in the rafters is that your nose is a lot closer to the source of dust than the cleaner is. You are better off using an extractor close to the source where the dust is most concentrated. And if the extractor has an equivalent fine filter it will clean the air at least as well as the high level air cleaner and may have a higher throughput. If the extractor is not collecting all the dust, which it probably wont unless the work is very small or the extractor is very big and you leave it running after the work stops, you will need a dust mask as well. I find the powered ones best personally, more comfortable and probably more effective. If you rely on a microclean type of cleaner, you are breathing as much dust as the cleaner is. More in fact.

 

[duncanh]

If you rely on a microclean type of cleaner, you are breathing as much dust as the cleaner is. More in fact.

It depends on where you put it. Mine is slightly left of the headstock, slightly behind the line of the bed and just above head height. My head isn't between the work and the filter so it draws dust away from me.
As soon as I switch it on I can see air born sanding dust move towards it. The fact that I have to clean the filter at least once a week shows how well it works. This is dust that it captures whilst I'm using my camvac extractor and wearing my PowerCap. I also shake and vacuum dust from the PowerCap at least once a week.

The fact that all 3 capture dust shows how useful they all are and I wouldn't want to be without any of them. If I had to choose only one it would be the PowerCap.

Duncan

 

[Finial]

Fair enough, if there is dust in the filter it must be doing something, and if you have it actively drawing air away from you it must help. You are really using it as an extractor. The more the airflow and the closer the extrtaction point is to the dust source the better it will be. I haven't worked with one of the microclean types so can't really say, but I am surprised if it copes with larger workpieces or draughts in the workshop. I do think the priority is to go for the highest air flow rate as close to the work as possible, with a good filter. A good mask is likely to give the most protection, but only while you are wearing it of course. Many people will take it off when the turning stops, but the air may be full of dust for a long time.

 

[duncanh]

This is a photo which I took a couple of years ago to show how effective the Microclene 400 is...



This is after approx 10 hours of turning dry wood. The stripe down the middle is where I vacuumed to show some contrast. At that time I only switched the Microclene on whilst sanding and when I wasn't in the shed. The Camvac was only used whilst sanding.

These days the Microclene is on all the time and I wear earphones with radio/music and ear defenders over the top. The Camvac is still only used whilst sanding.

The Microclene pulls through more air than you would expect - the exhaust from it is powerful and easily moves light things on shelves close by. It can be annoying in winter when it causes quite a draft. Because of this you need to place it carefully so that the exhaust doesn't hinder the path of incoming dust (the website says not to put it a floor level).
I don't know how it compares to other makes of ambient filter. The only problem I have with it is the noise.

 

[Finial]

It obviously does collect dust, but not necessarily from your breathing zone where it may be most concentrated. The exhaust will reach much further than the suction. I am not saying it does no good, just that they are not the best answer to dust. Those cleaners can give a false sense of security. I use a powerful extractor with cyclone for turning, but it doesn't get everything either.

 

[duncanh]

I am not saying it does no good, just that they are not the best answer to dust. Those cleaners can give a false sense of security. I use a powerful extractor with cyclone for turning, but it doesn't get everything either.

So an extractor can give a false sense of security as well?

As has been discussed in various other threads - the best solution is a complete system which has an extractor, an ambient air filter and a good quality (preferably powered?) face mask. Even with these you need to ensure that you clean the filters regularly to ensure optimum performance.

 

[Finial]

So an extractor can give a false sense of security as well?

indeed it can. But i was thinking of air cleaners hanging up rather than like yours. They are not an alternative to proper extractors and i think that is what some people buy them as.

The best solution is an effective extractor, possibly using a cleaner as an extractor in the way you do, because they stop the dust getting airbourne. My extractor gets all the dust, if the work is not too big, so i don't need a mask or an air cleaner then. in any case the extractor acts as a cleaner. When the extractor can't cope then you need a mask. If the dust is in the air the cleaner helps, but the aim is to stop it getting there if possible.

 

[loz]

The best solution is an effective extractor, possibly using a cleaner as an extractor in the way you do, because they stop the dust getting airbourne. My extractor gets all the dust, if the work is not too big, so i don't need a mask or an air cleaner then.

Hi,

Can you tell us Extractor you have - sounds wonderful !

 

[Finial]

It's a 1.5 hp Oneida cyclone with bag filters. I use two easily moveable 5 inch inlets, one either side of the mdf discs i turn and I reckon they are good for discs up to about 8-9 inches diameter max. I can see the dust plume and most of the chips being drawn in. It is a bit cold on the hands sometimes, and depending on the job I do sometimes wear an Airstream helmet as well. I use a single inlet for spindle work and that is good for most of the work I do, I can move the inlet along if needed.

The Oneida was expensive (!!) but I think any extractor would work similarly if the power and ducting and filtration was good enough. You must get the inlet close to the dust source. I believe air speed falls to about 10% at about one diameter distance in front of the face of the inlet. I also use chip deflectors that stop the shavings shooting off too fast, and the discs don't turn at high speed.

 

[cornucopia]

the smallest the human eye can see without help is 5 micron- the dust which is most dangerous to us all is smaller than 5 micron as it is this dust that gets past our natraul defences and deep into our lungs, to only rely on a extractor (no matter how good or expensive) is foolish- the best anwser is to use a extractor for the majority at source an ambient filter to run before during and after work and a dust mask/respirator to make sure nothing gets into our lungs.
i have two camvacs with 5 motors between them- a microclean 1200 and a trend respirator.

 

[Finial]

to only rely on a extractor (no matter how good or expensive) is foolish- the best anwser is to use a extractor for the majority at source an ambient filter

A lot of sense in this.

If the inlet is well-positioned and the coarse dust and chips go up the pipe, so do the fine particles, they move with the air and have no 'flying' range of their own. An extractor with a fine filter acts as an air cleaner, while it is on. But I shouldn't overstate the effectiveness of the extractor. It's hard to collect all the dust all the time when turning. My extractor doesn't catch large chips flying back from the gouge when spindle turning, but i can see the dust being pulled out of the stream if the work is not too big. Also some chips and coarse dust fall to the floor when i am turning 9 inch discs. If i turn larger items without a mask i am aware of the dust, but not with smaller work.

It can't do any harm to use ambient filters and masks as well.