Dust extraction

[Robbo60]

I have been on the forum for a couple of months and read some really interesting stuff about extraction but still not sure about blast gates, cyclones, shop vacs etc. I have a small workshop, 3m X 3.6M (2/3 of what was my garage) I have a mitre saw at one side, a mobile bench and mobile table saw mostly at other side. I occasionally use a palm router, circular saw, jig saw, orbital sander. Can anyone point me to a design of an extraction system for such a set up please? What type of suction?
Thanks in advance

 

[Doug B]

Realistically in such a small place with the tools you have I would just use a vac HPLV with a cyclone on some sort of mobile base which could be moved to the tool in use when needed.
My own shop isn’t a great deal bigger than yours & when I first started off put 2 lots of ducting in one for LPHV & one for HPLV with blast gates. What I soon realised was not only did this take up a lot room in relation to the space I had, but also with a small workshop flexibility is key & quite often when working on bigger projects the outlets were in the wrong location for the job in hand.

 

[Robbo60]

Thanks Doug but what is HPLV and LPHV

 

[smackie]

What @Doug B said - you’d be fine with a good quality mobile extractor. HPLV is High Pressure, Low Volume and LPHV is Low Pressure, High Volume. This is a good intro article about the differences.

A guide to dust extraction by member siggy_7

Good dust extraction makes a huge difference. It’s one of the reasons I ended up using Festool stuff as I work in a very small space and excellent dust/chip extraction makes working with saws, routers and sanders far more pleasant.

 

[Bigbadmarky]

I have a stationary shop vac with cyclone and some ducting under one of my benches ( I have a single car garage workshop ~5m x 3m). I have fixed extraction to my sliding mitre saw and a small 'kick' where I sweep all my man glitter. I also have an open port where I can connect hoses and such. My vac is a little Titan 16l jobbie from Screwfix and the cyclone is a cheap one from ebay. I use 68mm drain pipe for the ducting and made some blast gates out of 12mm mdf. The drain pipe isn't ideal as I do get static build up from time to time but I've not exploded yet! If you want any pics let me know.
Dust extraction is a great addition to the garage and I wouldn't be without it but, to be honest, my current set up is a bit limiting. I need to add dust collection to my router table but I don't really have the capacity in its current configuration. I need to have a rethink.

Have a think about how you use your space and what dust collection system would work best for you. I try and keep all my dusty activities around the bench with the ducting and keep finishing and less dusty jobs to the other side of the garage.

 

[Robbo60]

Thanks again Doug. Read the article and think I might do both. Have a LPHV for my mitre was (which doesn't move) and some ducting and hose for my table saw (which is roughly in the same place when in use but moved to the side when not) Haven't decided on cyclone yet. need to read that article
Then buy a shop vac for the router/sander etc.
Every day is a school day - for me, at least

 

[DBT85]

Thanks again Doug. Read the article and think I might do both. Have a LPHV for my mitre was (which doesn't move) and some ducting and hose for my table saw (which is roughly in the same place when in use but moved to the side when not) Haven't decided on cyclone yet. need to read that article
Then buy a shop vac for the router/sander etc.
Every day is a school day - for me, at least

What size is the duct going to your mitre saw? LPHV is pants if you drop down much below 75mm and really wants to be 100mm at least.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I have found this to be a really good video on dust collection

watch

 

[Robbo60]

What size is the duct going to your mitre saw? LPHV is pants if you drop down much below 75mm and really wants to be 100mm at least.

It's only 40mm. I've got an old Dyson attached to it which does OK but there's still lots of dust from around the blade

 

[DBT85]

It's only 40mm. I've got an old Dyson attached to it which does OK but there's still lots of dust from around the blade

Ahh OK. Dyson is HPLV.

Mitre saws are often bad for DX but I don't think it helps that often they are connected to HPLV, so all the stray bits don't get scooped up. Mostly because everyone just used the built in dust port which is small and useless for LPHV.

 

[Robbo60]

Is there anything after market to pick up the saw dust from the back of the blade?

 

[DBT85]

Is there anything after market to pick up the saw dust from the back of the blade?

Not really. If you want to improve it it's either get a saw with better collection (which still is often bot great) or try to make something that can help. There are lots of attempts online with varying degrees of success.

 

[Fanous]

Not to steal the thunder, but...

I already have a shop vac with cyclone, it's great for table saw, and other small stuff. I'm gonna buy the axminster jointer/thicknesser they have for a grand. Now I want to get chip extractor and hook up a bigger cyclone to it. Axminster has everything I need, but it would end up a bit pricey... Extractor Cyclone planner and probably two of those hoses and it's nearly as expensive as the big machine!!! (£627) And I'm trying to find a cheaper solution, if there is any? Aiming for airflow 1,000 m³/hr

Suggestion?

Edit: I should add - wanted the motor wall mounted, as I have a high ceiling shop, small footprint shop. Have the barrel and cyclone on ground under the motor.

 

[DBT85]

You'd not get 1000m3 on that as soon as you put a hose on it. I'd really love to have all the stuff to measure this stuff as frankly the information given out by manufacturers is bordering on fraudulent.

The 3hp motor on mine (one of the ridiculously large 2 bag 2 filter ones) could be mounted to a wall easily enough and most are the same. So one option is getting a used unit and nailing it up yourself rather than buying one "designed" for it at such a high price.

 

[Terrytpot]

two of those hoses and it's ...expensive ...I'm trying to find a cheaper solution, if there is any?

Axi currently asking £57 for 2m of 100mm try £42 for 5m heavy duty inc postage 100mm @ these guys:
Heavy Duty Blue Spiral
got some myself this week and very happy with it

 

[Fanous]

You'd not get 1000m3 on that as soon as you put a hose on it. I'd really love to have all the stuff to measure this stuff as frankly the information given out by manufacturers is bordering on fraudulent.

The 3hp motor on mine (one of the ridiculously large 2 bag 2 filter ones) could be mounted to a wall easily enough and most are the same. So one option is getting a used unit and nailing it up yourself rather than buying one "designed" for it at such a high price.

Thanks for the note. I was a bit sceptical about the flow rate on 1HP motor, where others were having lower flowrate with 1HP motor... Good suggestion to look for 2nd hand. don't know why I haven't checked it already.

 

[Fanous]

Thanks for the tip. Price to value is now MUCH BETTER for the hose!!!

 

[Inspector]

Fanous, DBT85 is correct. Under optimum conditions the most air you can pull through a 100mm/4" pipe by any DC, even a 5 hp one, is 680 cubic meters per hour/400CFM. It is a limit of the diameter. A one hp dc will never pull that and with a cyclone like the one linked you will add about 3 inches of static pressure loss to it. That would be about half of what it could pull right off the bat. Adding hoses, ductwork and fittings will take away even more. Read Bill Pentz's site and you'll understand. Dust Collection Research - Home If you want to put a cyclone on a DC and get good flow you need a 3HP one and ducts of 150mm/6". Ducts of 150mm/6" can flow close to 2040 cubic meters per hour/1200CFM.

Pete

 

[DBT85]

With all that said, a 1hp machine on 4" duct is still going to be better than a Shopvac, provided you aren't trying to squeeze it through a 50mm port on 4m of bendy hose.

As for the price. I won an unused but "used" 3hp 2 bag jobbie for £200. It needs a proper filter on it rather than those daft bags, but for now I use my mask.

In an ideal world we'd all have 5hp 200mm systems ducted in. Since we don't live there we have to make use of what we can as best we can, while being aware of what the limitations are.

 

[sed9888]

This is my mobile extractor it all works beautifully and can be moved around or in my case the hose is long enough to reach just about everywhere