Dust extraction for bench/hand power tools; shop vac?

[Wend]

Hi,

I've been reading up on the ins and outs of dust extraction, and I think I've got is sussed, but I thought it worth double checking before I go out spending a lot of money on the wrong thing! So could anyone tell me if this sounds sensible please?

My primary goal is to reduce the amount of harmful dust that I will breath in. If the larger bits of sawdust get sucked up too, then that's a bonus, but those can always be dealt with later.

In the short to medium term, the tools I'm most likely to have are a band saw, a bench sander, a random orbit sander, and a small router. It seems likely that I'll end up with 4 different size of extraction ports, perhaps 100mm, 63mm, 35mm, 28mm. I haven't had much luck finding minimum air flow numbers for the hand tools, but the bench tools seem to be around 6000-12000 l/min.

The impression I have is that, for light hobbiest use, a shop vac would be the right tool for the job. It'll probably end up being a different size again, e.g. 32mm, but presumably I'd just find an appropriately sized adapter for each machine, leave it permanently in the machine and swap the hose between them. Probably with a 4-way power extension plugged into the shop vac's socket, so whichever machine is being used will make it automatically turn on.

Max flow is going to be more like 3000 l/min, but there doesn't seem to be a way around that without spending serious money. A chip extractor would have a much higher flow rate, but would probably do a much worse job at dealing with the harmful stuff.

The exact model will basically come down to how much I think it's worth spending.

So does that sound sensible? A shop vac, 4 adaptors at the machine ends, and don't worry too much about the flow numbers?


Thanks!

 

[MattRoberts]

Yep, sounds right. The larger the port, the less effective the shop vac will be though. If the bandsaw is 100mm, the vac isn't going to do much. You might want to look at rigging it up closer to the source (where the blade goes through the table). There's a video just been posted by Rob Cosman on YouTube about this

 

[Wend]

Great, thanks! I understand that the sanders will be producing most of the nasty stuff, so I'll do the best I can with the band saw but not worry too much about it.

 

[MikeJhn]

If you buy a shop vac with a power outlet, check its power rating against the tools you are going to use with it, some are quite restricting in the amperage you can use from the vac, you can buy auto remote sockets that are good, I have my 110volt transformer wired up to one, which means I can switch it on from anywhere in the shop.

EDIT TO ADD LINK: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/S ... Gwod_dgIdw

Also look at a vac with an exhaust outlet that can be ducted that will get rid of all the fine dust picked up by the vac, just be careful where you duct it to.

Mike

 

[MikeJhn]

Have a look at this: http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-nvd7 ... r-ax782721 would do all you want with all the different outlets, it has the facility for a disposable extra filter layer in a cut down 4BH bag also an internal bag and a rear exhaust.

Mike

 

[JJ1]

For the last two or three years I've been using a £60 Lidl wet and dry vac and it works faultlessly and does the job admirably. I use it with an osculating bobbin sander, belt sander, R.O. sander, delta sander, detail sander, two different 1/2 " routers, a 1/4" router, a track saw, a bandsaw, I don't think I've forgotten anything :roll: It fit's everything fine. The only thing I've had to do was reduce the bandsaw's dust extraction outlet, which I did with a couple of scraps of 18mm MDF, drilled with a big hole one side and a smaller one on the other. The router needed an old off-cut of vacuum cleaner hose and that's it. Works great.

 

[Jacob]

Trend T30 is very good.

 

[sploo]

For large machinery you generally want high volume low pressure (HVLP); lots of airflow for capturing and carrying dust. The downside is that low pressure air (pulled by a HVLP system) doesn't compress well so if you try to use that sort of extractor with a handheld machine that has a small extraction connector you will kill the airflow. For that, a shop vac (LVHP) is required.

Unfortunately, a shop vac rarely moves enough air for the big machines, so both types are usually required.

Note that a poor shop vac is likely to just be a dust pump; the filters will be poor, so it'll let through the really fine dangerous dust, and generally stir up dust in your workshop.

The ideal setup would be to work with a powered respirator (e.g. Trend airshield), have a shop vac with HEPA filters, a HVLP extractor with a cyclone and either good filters or vent outside, and a workshop air filter/cleaner to reduce anything that escapes. Not cheap or simple I accept.

 

[Wend]

Have a look at this: http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-nvd7 ... r-ax782721 would do all you want with all the different outlets, it has the facility for a disposable extra filter layer in a cut down 4BH bag also an internal bag and a rear exhaust.

Mike

Interesting! I don't think I even looked at that one due to the lack of socket.

But from the manual, I get the impression that it only deals well with the small, harmful stuff when using the smaller inlet. I'm also not sure whether it would be better than another shop vac with an external adapter.

 

[Wend]

If you buy a shop vac with a power outlet, check its power rating against the tools you are going to use with it, some are quite restricting in the amperage you can use from the vac, you can buy auto remote sockets that are good, I have my 110volt transformer wired up to one, which means I can switch it on from anywhere in the shop.

The impression that I got was that everything except the router was going to easily be within the power limits. And for a small (palm?) router, even that would be fine.

But the worst case scenario is that for some tools I don't use the vac's socket and turn it on and off another way (as I'd have to do with one that doesn't have a socket), so I don't think I'll worry too much about that aspect.

Thanks for the warning, though!

 

[MikeJhn]

Have a look at this: http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-nvd7 ... r-ax782721 would do all you want with all the different outlets, it has the facility for a disposable extra filter layer in a cut down 4BH bag also an internal bag and a rear exhaust.

Mike

Interesting! I don't think I even looked at that one due to the lack of socket.

But from the manual, I get the impression that it only deals well with the small, harmful stuff when using the smaller inlet. I'm also not sure whether it would be better than another shop vac with an external adapter.

As with every other shop vac the small inlet is for harmful dust, in this unit the dust is contained inside a sealable Hepa bag, therefore exposure to the harmful dust is kept to a minimum even when emptying, this does not apply to most other shop vac's, the larger 100mm inlet although OK to some extent will not pick up all the Chipping's from a larger machine, although you don't seem to have this requirement at the moment from your tool description just that one of you machines has a 100mm size outlet, as sploo has explained no shop vac HPLV or chip extractor LPHV machine will do all of the extraction needed in a workshop, you need both if you have a requirement to extract dust and large chips, however the Neumatic IMO is the best compromise until you have the requirement for large volume chip extraction.

When comparing like for like, look for motor wattage and cubic foot per minute/hour extraction, unfortunately some extractors have very enthusiastic CFM/H values put against them and will try to fool you with Litres per second as the larger number and never achieve their stated extraction rate, if you have a specific extractor/shop vac in mind post here for real on site advice from someone that has the unit.

I have a Numatic 2 x 1200watt=2400 watt vac and it is excellent at what it does, especially the four stage filter arrangement and all the dust contained inside a sealable bag, where MDF dust is concerned you can't be over careful.

As I posted earlier, remote switching can be achieved with these: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/S ... Gwod_dgIdw I use them myself for my Numatic.

Mike

 

[Wend]

I have a Numatic 2 x 1200watt=2400 watt vac and it is excellent at what it does, especially the four stage filter arrangement and all the dust contained inside a sealable bag, where MDF dust is concerned you can't be over careful.

I finally trekked out to Axminster to prod things in person, and I'm coming around to the idea of the NVD750. Thank you for making me reconsider it!

I'm a little confused by the way it jumps between 51mm and 32mm for the central connector, though. Am I right in thinking that the central connector is 51mm, but that the provided 32mm hose has a built in 51-to-32mm reducer at one end?

So to connect to a 62mm or 63mm tool, I'd presumably want to connect a 63mm hose to that port? I feel like http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-63mm ... ent-501270 must be the solution, but it doesn't look right from the photo.

And I presume that I can use blast gates on the two NVD750 connectors instead of connecting and removing hoses so often.

Finally, am I right in thinking that if a tool says it has 2 extraction ports, then that is just to provide options in where to attach it, and I only need to use one of them?


Thanks again!

 

[DiscoStu]

I have a £50 Karcher shop vac attached to all of my machines via blast gates and 62mm hose. I've made some adapters for some of them. I can honestly say it works well with all of my tools. I only have one tool with a 100mm port and that's my table saw but even that seems to be good with the vac. I do have a cyclone on it which is a piece of technical wizardry I'd recommend. My vac is completely empty as my bin fills up.

I did find that getting adapters was tricky so I made mine out of MDF for the couple of machines with smaller ports and I made one for the 100mm port as well. Just a round disco of MDF with a hole the right size in it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[user22161]

I use these tool adaptors with Karcher shop vac. Have several as they can be cut down to suit specific tools.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wet-Dry-Vacuu ... SwU-pXsb2l.

Have HVLP for band saw PT, TS etc.

 

[Jacob]

I use these tool adaptors with Karcher shop vac. Have several as they can be cut down to suit specific tools.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wet-Dry-Vacuu ... SwU-pXsb2l.

Have HVLP for band saw PT, TS etc.

Theres all sorts of ways of bodging up connectors with gaffer tape and various bits of tube - plastic bottles, leftover plumbing fittings, old vacuum cleaner tubes (always worth saving!) and so on.

 

[MikeJhn]

I have a Numatic 2 x 1200watt=2400 watt vac and it is excellent at what it does, especially the four stage filter arrangement and all the dust contained inside a sealable bag, where MDF dust is concerned you can't be over careful.

I finally trekked out to Axminster to prod things in person, and I'm coming around to the idea of the NVD750. Thank you for making me reconsider it!

I'm a little confused by the way it jumps between 51mm and 32mm for the central connector, though. Am I right in thinking that the central connector is 51mm, but that the provided 32mm hose has a built in 51-to-32mm reducer at one end?

So to connect to a 62mm or 63mm tool, I'd presumably want to connect a 63mm hose to that port? I feel like http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-63mm ... ent-501270 must be the solution, but it doesn't look right from the photo.

And I presume that I can use blast gates on the two NVD750 connectors instead of connecting and removing hoses so often.

Finally, am I right in thinking that if a tool says it has 2 extraction ports, then that is just to provide options in where to attach it, and I only need to use one of them?


Thanks again!

The inlets on the Axminster vac and all Numatic's are a 51mm male thread, all the hose's from Numatic no matter the hose diameter have a 51mm female threaded fitting, normally you would just use one inlet from a vac, any other supplied inlet would be blanked off when in use, I have that particular hose on your link, used to extend my Numatic's hose length for getting around the workshop without moving the vac if you look at the pic on your link you will see the blank off fitting, but nothing I have has a 63mm dust outlet, most are smaller or 100mm, I don't use any type of cyclone as you can't use a collection bag with them, I also don't use ducting or waste gates as they restrict the flow unnecessarily, everything is connected directly to the extractor I am using.

Mike