Dust extraction - bandsaws

[Picalilli]

Hi all - recently purchased an Axminster AW2305b bandsaw and I’m wanting to set up some dust extraction. I have a cheap triton wet and dry vac that I’ve hooked up but it’s not really pulling much out at all, so I’ve been looking at other extractor options. Is also like something quieter.

The bandsaw I have specifies 850m3/h airflow for extraction, but I’ve noticed that the lower model (1950b) specifies 390m3/h.
The difference in the two is that the smaller one has an outlet of 63mm while the one I have is 100mm.

https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-workshop-aw2305b-bandsaw-230v-107999
https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-workshop-aw1950b-bandsaw-230v-107711

What I’m wondering, is why is all of that extra airflow required for the slightly larger saw - aside from the outlet being bigger? I suppose what I’m thinking, is why couldn’t I just step the outlet down to 63mm and use a dust extractor with less power…? Surely the difference in the actual sawdust created doesn’t change? Just seems odd that the larger one required double the airflow when it’s essentially doing the same work, just with larger wheels?

Am I missing something?

Any advice on the best set up to go for is greatly appreciated - my main restrictions are budget (ideally <£300), size (compact as possible). I like the idea of a wall mounted one, something like this Axminster one, which actually comes in at exactly the airflow I need, but wondering whether it’s wiser to go slightly higher? This is the only machine I’ll be hooking it up to.

https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-workshop-aw37e-dust-extractor-230v-107695

 

[Jameshow]

I have a rexon copy if this style of DX works well for my table saw. Yet to try it in a PT but it works well and is relatively quiet.

 

[Picalilli]

Thanks - I’ve been looking around and doesn’t seem like a lot of options for the wall mounted ones. Charnwood do one, Axminster and some Clarke ones. Couldn’t find any of the Rexon for sale.

 

[Jacob]

Dust extraction you need high volume lower suction pressure i.e. 4" pipe etc
Vacuum cleaner lower volume but higher pressure i.e. smaller pipe

 

[Sideways]

My suggestion would be use a thin piece of ply or even cardboard, make a zero clearance insert for the (bottom of) the little triangular area where the blade first enters the lower box and connect a shop vac type extractor to the upper one of the two dust ports only. Ignore the bottom one.
That will concentrate strong suction in a small area (and within just a few inches of where the sawdust is created) and be more effective than splitting one vac between two connected dust outlets, or using a bag type extractor which moves more air but has much less suck.
Some dust will definately escape and you'll need to hoover out the top and bottom boxes by hand once a week say, but that's no great chore.
Bandsaws don't have the greatest dust extraction but they don't throw vast amounts of dust either.

 

[MikeK]

Here's a YouTube video by Steve Maskery showing how he uses a shop vacuum on his bandsaw.

 

[Picalilli]

Thanks for the replies all.

So am I right in thinking that the shop vac would actually suck out more sawdust if connected in this way, forgetting the dual port etc. if so, what’s the advantage of the extractor option, with more volume?

I must admit, I would prefer the lower noise of the extractor type. That shop vac sounds like a jet engine.

 

[Jacob]

The higher volume extractor basically takes dust from the whole of the bottom case of the saw, not just from the vicinity of the pipe end, assuming the case doesn't have too many gaps in it, other than the 4" extractor port itself. One port should do it, depending on the design layout.

 

[Picalilli]

it’s a shame because I was really liking the idea of the extractor system based on it being much quieter. I hate the idea of having that shop vac on, it’s so loud.

The Steve maskery video seems to suggest that the extractors do pretty much nothing at all. Seems so daft that they’d market them for this and build the bandsaws to accommodate them if they don’t remove the sawdust?

Does anyone have any luck using them with a bandsaw?

I assume that the extractors wouldn’t have much suck even if they are converted to having a smaller diameter hose? I.e step it down to 32mm would it suck more?

 

[Sachakins]

You could consider a CAMVAC extractor, I have an old Yorkleen WV150, with a 100mm (maybe a tad larger) port. I use it with 100mm flexible hose on my P/T and my old Kitty 513 band saw, but recently made a 100 to 63mm adapter for it and use that on table saw, and band saw, using a similar set up in the video posted earlier, it does a better job than the 100mm, as it's nearer to the point of dust creation, and has whopping amount of suck. Good on table saw too, unless im using a sled.

I have my Yorkleen under my bench and don't find it so loud, certainly not like the screaming banshee shop vac. Plus with 5m of 63mm flexi I can Hoover up the shed from end to end and it's about 8.5m long and the Yorkleen sits in the middle of the shed, tucked tightly under a bench top.

 

[MikeK]

Thanks for the replies all.

So am I right in thinking that the shop vac would actually suck out more sawdust if connected in this way, forgetting the dual port etc. if so, what’s the advantage of the extractor option, with more volume?

I must admit, I would prefer the lower noise of the extractor type. That shop vac sounds like a jet engine.

My comments are based on my Record Power BS350S bandsaw. The 100mm HVLP port in the bottom of the saw does a poor job of collecting all of the residue from the cutting, and I use a 3HP extraction system. The HVLP system extracts only what actually makes it to the lower wheel area, but is useless for any chips or dust between the top of the table and the gap between the table and lower section. I use a modified version of Steve's system on my saw to collect as much as I can.

Here are some photos showing my setup with the table removed. For now, the additional dust collection at the blade is a branch of the HVLP system and works great. I still have some cleanup to do when I'm finished cutting, but as @Sideways wrote, bandsaws are messy.

I don't care about the noise in my shop because I use hearing protection no matter what equipment is in use.

 

[Sachakins]

My comments are based on my Record Power BS350S bandsaw. The 100mm HVLP port in the bottom of the saw does a poor job of collecting all of the residue from the cutting, and I use a 3HP extraction system. The HVLP system extracts only what actually makes it to the lower wheel area, but is useless for any chips or dust between the top of the table and the gap between the table and lower section. I use a modified version of Steve's system on my saw to collect as much as I can.

Here are some photos showing my setup with the table removed. For now, the additional dust collection at the blade is a branch of the HVLP system and works great. I still have some cleanup to do when I'm finished cutting, but as @Sideways wrote, bandsaws are messy.

I don't care about the noise in my shop because I use hearing protection no matter what equipment is in use.

Hi Mike, do you have to remove pipe to change blade?

 

[Picalilli]

Thanks - that’s really useful. Looks like a good set up you have there. And you find that’s working well with a HVLP setup rather than a shop vac?

I think I could probably do something similar to that if I remove this bracket next to the blade, which from what I can see is only there to guide the dust down into the extraction port below.

Sachakins - I will have a look at camvac option too. Sounds like there is hope for my ears yet! I do take the point about ear defenders, and should probably wear them anyway. The noise from the bandsaw seems relatively quiet though to be fair.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

Don't think of this in terms of volumes but velocity of the gas stream. Change the area, you change the velocity if the flow remains the same (which it does not for HVLP systems). 100mm has 2.5x the cross sectional area compared with 63mm.

 

[Sideways]

Big bag type high volume extractors move a decent volume of air only if there's very little resistance to flow.
They become very much less effective the moment you reduce the size of the air path (like reducing a 100mm down to 63 or 50mm hose), or if there are sharp bends etc in the airflow.
To get air out, there needs to be somewhere for it to get in and a clear-ish route between.
So if you are trying to pull air out of a box through a 4 inch diameter hole, there needs to be the equivalent of a 4 inch diameter hole to let the replacement air into the box. Otherwise you just choke the extractor and it does nothing.
It would be an interesting experiment to put a bag extractor on the upper port and leave the bottom one open to allow a real airflow through the lower box.
That might actually work.

 

[Sachakins]

This is the new Yorkleen.
Mine is the older green model, that I picked up off fleabay for £50 about 18 months back, plus I got a spare drum too, very lucky looking at new price now.

Also worth reading this other thread titled

CamVac 386-5 or Axminster AW118CE​

Sorry don't know how to link to it directly.

 

[Spectric]

Remember that it is airflow that will extract the dust so just having a large extractor may create a slight drop in air pressure but unless air can enter to create a flow then nothing will happen. I just hoover out the bottom of my BS400 and have found no dust issues without my hoover connected but then I am not using much MDF which produces nasty dust.

 

[Jacob]

I use a dust extractor (Axminster ADE 2200 1.5kw) all the time on my combi, and a Trend with hand RO and belt sanders but have never bothered on the band saw (Startrite 352) as dust isn't a problem. It all goes down below the table and gets cleared out with a dust pan every now and then. A long run of MDF might change my mind I guess.
Do you really need dust extraction in the first place?
Looking at the Axminster Workshop AW2305B Bandsaw 230V it looks unavoidable - there's no space for the dust to pile up. I'd call that a design fault! Another machine perhaps?

 

[Inspector]

To get air out, there needs to be somewhere for it to get in and a clear-ish route between.
So if you are trying to pull air out of a box through a 4 inch diameter hole, there needs to be the equivalent of a 4 inch diameter hole to let the replacement air into the box. Otherwise you just choke the extractor and it does nothing.

Correct except the opening into the "box" should be twice the area of the duct pulling the air out for best flow and capture.

An Aussie came to have three 4"/100mm ducts to the bandsaw to get the best dust collection. One under the table at the blade guides. One in the bottom of the cabinet. A third above and behind the upper blade guides. For that a 6" system is needed to make it work which is beyond the scope of the OPs wants.

Pete

 

[Picalilli]

Do you really need dust extraction in the first place?
Looking at the Axminster Workshop AW2305B Bandsaw 230V it looks unavoidable - there's no space for the dust to pile up. I'd call that a design fault! Another machine perhaps?

Maybe not? I have considered just wearing a mask while using and hoovering out after every use. One of my main concerns is the dust in the air as I’m using, but it would be nice to have a set up that was going to minimise the dust so that less hoovering after sawing was required. There’s seems to be a lot gathering up around the bearings, guides etc though so not sure if it’s going to cause a problem to not extract it as it’s going long term. I’ve never owned a bandsaw before so not sure where the problems may lie.

would be an interesting experiment to put a bag extractor on the upper port and leave the bottom one open to allow a real airflow through the lower box.
That might actually work.

I’d be interested in trying this. Problem is I don’t want to go out and buy a hvlp extractor for it to make minimal difference and end up having to Hoover out after every use anyway.

Wonder if Axminster would accept a return if I got one and it just wasn’t doing a good enough job to justify the cost?