Dovetail Saws

[Alf]

Hang on, what am I supposed to know? A saw doc? Now would I have taken on the task of learning this arcane art myself if I knew of one? :shock: Would I? Of course not. Andy P was my one best hope! The one the galoots recommend is Tom Law, but he's in the States of course. Plus, as someone pointed out, he won't be around forever, so you're better off learning how to do it yourself. For a start it'll keep the art alive :wink: I've managed to sharpen up to 15ppi sucessfully, as long as the teeth are in reasonable condition and don't need re-shaping. On my Tuit list is re-cutting the teeth of a saw I managed to foul up 'cos it needed re-shaping and was a mere 17ppi :shock: , but I'm still waiting on the appropriate hacksaw blade to use as a file guide.

If anyone fancies taking the risk (well I'm willing to sharpen my own saws, some of which are probably near 100yrs old, so if I'm willing to risk it... :wink: ), I don't mind having a crack at it for small renummeration (to cover file expense mainly; they're blooming pricy ). I do also have a couple of saws likely to be going spare, once I can decide which of 4 is going to be my "go to" dovetail saw. Maybe which 2 of 4 then... If anyone's interested, ping me a PM by all means, fwiw.

Er, hand tools fora. There's one on Wood Central, Sawmill Creek and the Traditional Tools forum. The Porch of course, and here. There's a couple of others too, but they're so quiet as to be null and void.

Cheers, Alf

P.S. I have a strong feeling that David Charlesworth recently (?) said he'd managed to track down someone. If I can remember to, I'll email him and ask.

 

[Adam]

Hang on, what am I supposed to know? A saw doc?

>well, I'd expect any self-confessed Galoot to know at least one?

Now would I have taken on the task of learning this arcane art myself if I knew of one? :shock: Would I? Of course not.

Well, you might just be saving those pennies for a DECT phone, or a replacement for that MAXI :twisted:

>Andy P was my one best hope! The one the galoots recommend is Tom Law, but he's in the States of course. Plus, as someone pointed out, he won't be around forever, so you're better off learning how to do it yourself.

On the other hand, unless we provide demand for such sharpening, noone will choose to run a sharpening business. I'd rather pay, and have someone do all that learning on my behalf :roll:

>For a start it'll keep the art alive :wink:

But kill off any businesses :wink: through lack of customers

>I've managed to sharpen up to 15ppi sucessfully, as long as the teeth are in reasonable condition and don't need re-shaping. On my Tuit list is re-cutting the teeth of a saw I managed to foul up 'cos it needed re-shaping and was a mere 17ppi :shock: , but I'm still waiting on the appropriate hacksaw blade to use as a file guide.

Exactly, waiting for things? Hmm, not my idea of fun!

>If anyone fancies taking the risk (well I'm willing to sharpen my own saws, some of which are probably near 100yrs old, so if I'm willing to risk it... :wink: ), I don't mind having a crack at it for small renummeration (to cover file expense mainly; they're blooming pricy ).

Ahh now we're talking.....

>I do also have a couple of saws likely to be going spare, once I can decide which of 4 is going to be my "go to" dovetail saw. Maybe which 2 of 4 then... If anyone's interested, ping me a PM by all means, fwiw.

>Er, hand tools fora. There's one on Wood Central, Sawmill Creek and the Traditional Tools forum. The Porch of course, and here. There's a couple of others too, but they're so quiet as to be null and void.

Well, if you're posting a message.....

Adam

 

[dedee]

I sent an email to DC during my quest. It was he that recommended sending a letter to F&C.

It does seem to me that there is a market there somewhere.

AndyP

 

[Alf]

Andy,

Yep, I remember that. But I have this feeling he reported sucess after that. I might have a wizz through the back issues of F&C and see if I can find it.

Cheers, Alf

Who did seriously consider tapping said market for a brief moment, but is still waiting on a saw tooth re-cutter to turn up at the boot sale... :wink:

 

[Pete W]

For those that don't have it

http://www.vintagesaws.com/

is an excellent site with everything you might want to know about saws (except where to find a UK sawdoctor!). Click on the 'Library' link and there are several good introductory articles on what to look for in a saw, how to clean up an old saw, and sharpening for beginners. I've never seen anything else this useful in more than six months' worth of magazine and book reading.

Unfortunately, I don't have an old saw to try this on. I'm only aware of one local carboot sale; it's only on once a month and so far have managed to miss every one since I first received the advise about buying old tools. But I reckon I'll give it a go when I have something suitably unsharp .

 

[Adam]

Who did seriously consider tapping said market for a brief moment, but is still waiting on a saw tooth re-cutter to turn up at the boot sale... :wink:

WHooa, whats one of those? Photo please? So I can be on the lookout

 

[Alf]

Sorry Adam, can't find a pic anywhere There's an outfit in the US of A that makes p*w*r*d ones still, and the principle's the same. See threads here and here for a vague-ish idea. I don't really ever expect to find one, at least not with all the parts required to make it work.

Pete, that's the very site I learnt my sharpening from. Mainly anyway.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Adam]

http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/foleyfiler.html

Adam

 

[Alf]

Ah, but that's a filer, not a recutter. Different, allbeit related, animal. Viz, from that very page:

"The success of automatic filing depends entirely on the perfect regulation of saw teeth. In other words, the teeth must be evenly spaced because the filer doesn't control the spacing of the teeth. The opposite is true: The filer is controlled by the spacing of the teeth that are already on the saw. Unevenly spaced teeth make the file skip to the wrong tooth or land on top of a tooth, resulting in a messed-up saw.

Poorly regulated saw teeth are jointed down and new teeth are stamped out with a separate machine called a saw toother. They turn up on ebay and in other auctions all the time, but usually don't have the guides that control the number of teeth or points per inch. A toother is pretty much useless without them, and they sell cheap because of it."

Keep up at the back there, Adam... :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Adam]

Isn't a filer what we all need? How many people recut frmo scratch? Or am I missing the point still? It's hard to see when you're so far from the leaders :?

Adam

 

[Alf]

Hmm, can we go back to talking about shiny tools now? :? Oh all right then...

If everybody had their saws sharpened exactly when they needed to be and didn't wait until half the teeth were practically invisible, you wouldn't need to re-cut (I dunno how people manage that, but my brother's one of them ). If no-one ever hand-filed their saws, with the inevitable bias to one side or another that will certainly ensue, you wouldn't need to re-cut (although I agree with the argument that the irregularity of a hand-filed saw gives a smoother sawing experience, just like with a hand-cut rasp, so I don't believe it's an option to do that). If nobody ever dropped their saw or otherwise broke off one or more teeth, you wouldn't need to re-cut (hands up who hasn't found a nail or screw in a piece of wood with that well known detection device, "a saw" :lol: ). If everyone had exactly the tooth configuration they wanted and never decided "I really like this Spear and Jackon back saw, but I want 12 ppi not 10", you wouldn't need to re-cut. If mis-guided sellers didn't file down all the teeth on a saw because "it was dangerous", you wouldn't need to re-cut (true story :shock: ).

So yes, you could argue it's totally unrequired and a waste of space. :wink: But, you can bet your bottom dollar that if you set yourself up as a Saw Doctor hand-filing hand saws, 75% of them would probably require major tooth restoration and doing that by hand in large numbers is a situation of nightmare proportions.

Any clearer, or have I merely muddied the waters? :?

Cheers, Alf

 

[dedee]

Alf

If everybody had their saws sharpened exactly when they needed to be and didn't wait until half the teeth were practically invisible, you wouldn't need to re-cut (I dunno how people manage that, but my brother's one of them )."

Ah ha. This implies your brother has his saws sharpened. Where oh where? javascript:emoticon(':lol:')

How do you get those neat little white boxes with a previuos posters comments to come in your replies.

AndyP

 

[Adam]

I can nearly see through all the gloop. Blimey, perhaps my saws are in tip-top condition after all. I don't think I'll be needing that saw doctor! All my saws seem to have all the teeth, I haven't ever considered having a different number of TPI than what they come with, etc etc.

Adam

 

[Adam]

Alf

If everybody had their saws sharpened exactly when they needed to be and didn't wait until half the teeth were practically invisible, you wouldn't need to re-cut (I dunno how people manage that, but my brother's one of them )."

Ah ha. This implies your brother has his saws sharpened. Where oh where? javascript:emoticon(':lol:')

How do you get those neat little white boxes with a previuos posters comments to come in your replies.

AndyP

Every message has a "quote" button on the top right, when you press it, it bring you up into a reply with the entire message, if you want multiple boxes, you have to surround each bit of message with new quote and /quote

Like this.....

or this.....

 

[Alf]

or this.....

I don't think I said that did I...? :? :lol:

Andy, my brother has his saws sharpened by the simple task of bringing them to me and saying "can you sharpen this by Friday?". It worked the first time, but I've learnt my lesson now and will not be sharpening that ghastly S&J "Black Prince" ever again :evil: However, the nice 12" brass-backed tenon saw I gave him for his birthday is another matter; I'll actively encourage him to give it to me to sharpen before he starts eliminating the teeth!

Adam, they may have all their teeth, but are they sharp? :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Adam]

Seemed sharp enough last night as I cut slots in the oak tenons for the walnut wedges

Adam

Whos making projects not sharpening saws. Ouch. :roll:... :twisted:

asleitch wrote:

ALF wrote:

or this.....

I don't think I said that did I...?

Well it was just for the example wasn't it now

:wink:
Adam

 

[Alf]

Whos making projects not sharpening saws. Ouch. :roll:... :twisted:

Lucky you. I'm not even sharpening saws at the moment

asleitch wrote:

ALF wrote:

or this.....

I don't think I said that did I...?

Well it was just for the example wasn't it now

:wink:
Adam

That's alright then. I just thought maybe the aluminium pans had kicked in again...

Adrift in a sea of quotes, Alf :lol:

Shall we call it quits now?

 

[Adam]

Lucky you. I'm not even sharpening saws at the moment

Whats up?

Adam

 

[Alf]

The sky, birds, clouds... Lots of clouds Where's the sun got to these days anyway? On its hols? :evil:

Just "real" life getting in the way, nothing serious. 8)

Cheers, Alf

Putting up self portraits all over the workshop so the tools won't forget me...

 

[Alf]

Okay, I heard back from David Charlesworth, and he suggested the following (none from personal experience btw):

"The saw doctor problem is not easy. High Wycombe has good college and I believe that the big store there has access to a good saw doctor.
Can't remember the name of the store.......
Paul Richardson suggested CRM saw co Ltd, 17 arnside rd, waterlooville, hants 023 922 63202.
or a.a.smith, shoreham. 01273 461 707.
Another recommended by an ex student in somerset, perhaps the best?
Davenport western 01 935 425 311"

Whether the last one is the best due to ability or location I'm not sure. I think the store in High Wycombe could be Isaac Lord? Anyway, FWIW and don't say I didn't make an effort :wink: Actually I did wonder if anyone had ever asked Tilgear, Axminster or Mike Hancock at Classic Tools, bearing in mind they all sell these high-end saws they must surely be able to suggest someone? Adam? One for you now? :wink:

Cheers, Alf