Drill an MFT top using an MFT top as a template

[seanf]

So I have a CNC drilled MFT top, sized to fit the Festool MFT3, that I use on some trestles as a simple workbench. The holes are all in good condition. I’m now looking at building a custom workbench to fit my space and requirements and want to include the holes in the top. I was looking at the Parf Guide, but it is a pricey investment that would see little use for me after this project, so thought I would gauge people’s opinions on simply using the MFT top I have as a template and using a forstner bit to drill through my new top (most likely MDF of some sort) using each hole as a guide. Am I potentially setting myself up for trouble or does this all seem easy as long as I source an accurately sized, quality bit? And… does anyone have a recommendation for such a bit please?

Thanks

Sean

 

[Spectric]

Odds on your existing MFT top would get damaged and it might be hard to get the level of accuracy you need. The solution I would use is to buy these revision dogs from axminster . Now you can drill pilot holes in the right place without damage to get a 3mm hole at each location. Next issue is drilling these out to 20mm at 90° to the surface.

https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-...7359?queryID=316b93f8a449072f261cb526e24bba01

 

[seanf]

Brilliant suggestion there, thank you Roy! I see they do also sell the bit from the Parf Guide set. So yes, the question becomes could I repeatedly, accurately drill the holes 90° from the surface of the top. Any suggestions there from anyone please? Otherwise if the solution is just to buy more and more items it may just be easier to invest in the guide

Sean

 

[Spectric]

Many of us thinking about MFT tops and 20mm holes have gone through a similar thought process as yourself. The most accurate 20mm hole would be done either using a router or drill press. The directions I looked at were the template jig where you use a router and guide bush, here you must have the cutter centred otherwise eccentricity could be introduced and errors. Then you have the LR32 Festool system which is very expensive, FC tools do a jig and router sled that allows you to drill a standard tracksaw rail to be an LR32 rail but not viable unless you have other uses for one and then you look at the Parf guide system as not being that bad for the money, especially if you think of the MFT top as a consumable and that you will find many uses for smaller jigs with the 20mm holes. I have one on a woodrat that allows me to present work at fixed angles and you may have an MFT top on the bench but having an apron on the front of the bench allows you to work with the workpiece upright. So it might sound like a bit of an outlay that spends a lot of it's life on a shelf but you can make as many as you like.

One last solution is that you could just buy the tops from Benchdogs,

https://benchdogs.co.uk/collections/mft-tops

but the one top cost around the same as the Parf guide so a decision to be made.

 

[Bingy man]

using @Spectrics method above as long as you can accurately clamp your template mft top to your mdf or whatever then the only other tool would be a decent drill guide to get the pilot holes accurately placed then the s as me approach to enlarge them to 20 mm ..

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I like the idea of using the Axminster inserts to space the holes. But ask yourself how you like to use a MFT - do you really need all the holes, and accurately set out? If you are mainly using a hinged track for sawing, then the holes need to be set up for a fence, and a few holes here-and-there for clamps. Alternately, if you rely on the dogs to position work, the holes need to be exact.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[phil p]

Brilliant suggestion there, thank you Roy! I see they do also sell the bit from the Parf Guide set. So yes, the question becomes could I repeatedly, accurately drill the holes 90° from the surface of the top. Any suggestions there from anyone please? Otherwise if the solution is just to buy more and more items it may just be easier to invest in the guide

Sean

If you have, or know, anyone with a Bosch PBD 40 it could be the answer.
I once had a scenario where I had a few holes in an awkward place so I simply rotated and lowered the head on the pillar and it worked a treat.
Accuracy on the depth was pretty decent aswell.
Just something to think about.

 

[ChaiLatte]

It would be possible to make something quite like the aluminium item above out of hardwood or delrin. Drill the underside of it for a dowel point/centre. Drop it through the hole in the existing top, give it a tap to mark the centre of the new hole.

As above, a standard drill press will likely get the holes perpendicular to the surface. However, with an abundance of caution, please consider the following:

As the normal reference surface on these is the top of the base, there is no specific reason for the bottom of the base to be parallel to the top. Hence, verifying this before starting would be prudent.

It would indeed be unusual or bad-manufacture to find one that is not parallel, but you will never know if yours is the Friday afternoon model unless you check.

Another option is a drill stand:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TOPWAY-Attachment-Portable-Electric-105415/dp/B0BY6CPJ9M (works with a corded or cordless drill)

You can further increase the stability of the guide by fitting a larger sub-baseplate to it.

 

[Doug71]

How about clamping (screwing?) the two tops together, drill a 16mm hole through the centre of each hole then pop a 12mm top bearing flush trim bit through the hole and use it to enlarge the holes to the same as the ones in the pattern top, maybe afterwards use one of those reamers from Axminster if needed?

I have never tried this so don't know how well it will work

 

[Eshmiel]

Make a simple template of a piece of 3" X 3" truly square hardwood timber long enough to stretch across the smaller dimension of your top.

Use a drill press to drill accurately-spaced (as you want to space them fin your new top) 20mm vertical holes through the 3" X 3" template.

After drilling those small pilot holes using the metal inserts mentioned in another post (or just via marking them out very accurately) use a 20mm long drill bit through the 3" X 3" hardwood template to guide accurately-placed and vertical holes located via the pilot holes. If you made the template holes accurately spaced (i.e. exactly matching the little pilot holes) you should be able to align the rows of template hole <> pilot holes across the smaller dimension of your top-to-be-drilled.

Avoid drill bit types that have any sort of cutting edge on the sidewalls. A Forstner bit on an extension shank may be better than a standard auger bit, for example.

I've used this method to drill 19mm holes in a standard workbench top and they seem to have turned out to be accurately placed and vertical. The template is unworn. But the benchtop holes I made like this (for a friend's new bench) perhaps didn't need the accuracy of location that yours do.

PS Those portable drill stands sold by many WW online retailers are generally inadequate for such work as they easily distort in use. If you want to use such a thing, you'd probably need a very expensive heavy duty cast iron thing with near-zero flex in use.

 

[JSW]

PS Those portable drill stands sold by many WW online retailers are generally inadequate for such work as they easily distort in use.

Company I used to work at had a couple of RP DMS26 drill stands with the base removed and replaced with a horse shoe shaped piece of 1/2" steel, they were damned heavy as you'd expect, but deadly accurate.

 

[ChaiLatte]

Those portable drill stands sold by many WW online retailers are generally inadequate for such work as they easily distort in use.

It would be useful to say which type is inadequate.

The ones with a single pillar, similar to a standard drill press but of much lighter construction, are very poor.
(e.g. http://www.axistools.co.uk/633764?gQT=1)

They can be much improved by filling the hollow pillar with an epoxy concrete or by replacing it with a solid steel bar.

The ones with two legs and springs are OK if used sensibly even at the cheapest price level. They are also useful as the legs can project below the base so they self centre on a piece of stock.

 

[Diver Fred]

I obtained my MTF top from this company Really good value IMHO.

 

[Spectric]

I have recently been down the route of portable drill stands and I would not expect to get any sort of repeatable result from a £25 item like this.

I tried a Miles version at about £40 and that was hopeless and then looked at versions from Axminster

and Rockler before having a good think about there designs and why there were issues. I found the problem was overall height and then with a drill attached it became very top heavy and very unstable, yes you could attach a larger ply base but then you get other issues. My requirement was not for an MFT top, I needed something with more depth than my routers can provide and portable so in a moment of madness I brought a Woodpeckers Auto Line Drill Guide simply because I knew Woodpeckers engineering albeit very expensive will deliver and it did. It is much smaller than most others but using my Milwaukee M12 Installation Drill Driver it is still top heavy but easily managed and so easy to align to drill holes on location. For your MFT, even with using the existing MFT as the template and getting the pattern of 3mm holes using those revision dogs I would still doubt getting the level of precision needed because it takes so little error on each hole to accumulate into an unacceptable problem. I think that Peter went through many of these ideas to arrive at the Parf guide and there are some good threads on the UKW if you do a search but for me the ideal solution apart from CNC would be a jig and router, but at this moment in time the Parf Guide is the best solution. I would like to see a Parf guide drilling guide with 30mm holes to accept a router with 30mm bush as then you totally elliminate any issues in the use of the drill guide.

 

[William pang]

I still have my parf guide for sale

 

[Co1]

Where are you? I’ve an MFT cutting jig your welcome to borrow if your anywhere near North Yorkshire?

 

[Spectric]

I still have my parf guide for sale

Then please post it in the for sale section with pictures and a price to comply with forum rules.

 

[Mickjay]

How about clamping (screwing?) the two tops together, drill a 16mm hole through the centre of each hole then pop a 12mm top bearing flush trim bit through the hole and use it to enlarge the holes to the same as the ones in the pattern top, maybe afterwards use one of those reamers from Axminster if needed?

I have never tried this so don't know how well it will work

I have done that to make a 600 x 900 top with good results, afaik! My accuracy hasn't deteriorated so it worked for me.

 

[seanf]

Wow, thank you so much for all of the detailed and well-thought out responses. I've thought and digested and the conclusion I have come to is there are many ways that this could be accurately done with some careful setup and testing, etc. but likely the easiest way would be to use the tool that was actually made for the job and just invest in a Parf Guide. I have less time available to work on things like this than I would like, so taking the simplest option is probably the most sensible. I enjoyed reading the various suggestions though

Where are you? I’ve an MFT cutting jig your welcome to borrow if your anywhere near North Yorkshire?

I'm Shropshire but thank you so much for the offer

Sean

 

[Bingy man]

I have recently been down the route of portable drill stands and I would not expect to get any sort of repeatable result from a £25 item like this.

View attachment 197587I tried a Miles version at about £40 and that was hopeless and then looked at versions from Axminster

and Rockler before having a good think about there designs and why there were issues. I found the problem was overall height and then with a drill attached it became very top heavy and very unstable, yes you could attach a larger ply base but then you get other issues. My requirement was not for an MFT top, I needed something with more depth than my routers can provide and portable so in a moment of madness I brought a Woodpeckers Auto Line Drill Guide simply because I knew Woodpeckers engineering albeit very expensive will deliver and it did. It is much smaller than most others but using my Milwaukee M12 Installation Drill Driver it is still top heavy but easily managed and so easy to align to drill holes on location. For your MFT, even with using the existing MFT as the template and getting the pattern of 3mm holes using those revision dogs I would still doubt getting the level of precision needed because it takes so little error on each hole to accumulate into an unacceptable problem. I think that Peter went through many of these ideas to arrive at the Parf guide and there are some good threads on the UKW if you do a search but for me the ideal solution apart from CNC would be a jig and router, but at this moment in time the Parf Guide is the best solution. I would like to see a Parf guide drilling guide with 30mm holes to accept a router with 30mm bush as then you totally elliminate any issues in the use of the drill guide.

Have to agree with the auto line from woodpeckers , I wish I had brought it before I had the ujk version as it’s far superior in terms of optional extras. That said they both have their advantages and disadvantages.. end of the day careful set up and I use Brad point drill bits and a good light to make sure I’m drilling in the correct spot.