Door joint for wardrobe door

[got wood]

Hi all..
After some advice again (one day I may be able to give some back )
I will shortly be embarking on a set of built in wardrobes. They are going to be 19mm ash veneered carcass ,solid ash doors (19mm) with 9mm (or maybe 6mm) veneered mdf panels.
My question is this (I kinda think I know the answer already though!) Will this joint be strong enough for the doors :

Sorry about the pic size (big is here- http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2235/166 ... 5ba4_o.jpg if you cant see the small one!)
The panels would sit in the same rebate as the tenon.
This would be easy to do on the router table, as would a similar setup using a rail and stile bit set, but I prefer the clean lines of a rebate.
Personally I think I will have to mortice and tenon join the ends, as there isn't alot of gluing area on the tenons.

The door (9 of) will be approx 78" x 17" with a rail half way up to seperate the two panels.
There will also be topboxes (bridging unit?) above each that measure about 17" x 17" (I like imperial units, but tend to migrate now and again!)
The above joint is the same as my kitchen units, but they are obviously a lot smaller.

Any advice gratefully received.

Thanks

Jamie

 

[chippy1970]

Jamie,

I have made a few MDF doors that way on my tablesaw and if you make sure you glue all surfaces well it is a very strong joint. On real wood I would not glue the panels but on all mdf doors I do as there should not be any movement.

My own wardrobe doors have been on for a year now with no cracks on the joints.

 

[Sawdust]

Hi,

These https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=19740 are built exactly as you describe and they seem fine.

As Chip said, don't glue the panels in.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Steve Maskery]

At the risk of being a miseryguts...

I think you are expecting a lot from a stub tenon on ash - it's quite a bit heavier than pine and your sections are not slim. If you are not able to do proper M&T joints (although there is no reason why you shouldn't if you have a router and a few jigs - it's how I cut mine) then at least consider strengthening the joing with a loose tenon. Just a slot in each piece and a bridging slip and it will add enormously to the strength. It's really easy too.

If you panels are veneered ply or MDF (my choice would be two layers of 3mm ply back to back, as I've never seen two-faced ply that thin) DO glue them into the grooves. There will be no movement problems and it will add to the strength, aspecially if you do decide to rely just on the stub tenon.

Cheers
Steve

 

[tim]

Agree with Steve's joint points. Wouldn't bother with 9mm - too heavy as a panel for what you need and takes away too much timber for the groove. 6mm will be plenty.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Sawdust]

I didn't notice that you were proposing 9mm panels. Mine are 6mm MDF veneered both sides.

Mike

 

[got wood]

First of all, thanks for all the help
Okay - 6mm panel it is! Sawdust, I am getting it all from Laver as you recommended. Got a quote yesterday - very reasonable. Can I ask you, what did you use for the backing, as they don't do ash faced hardboard?

I think i'll use mortice and tenons to join the rails. Is there any sort of guide as to the size / depth of the tenon in relation to the size of the wood?

Did a quick sketch for a router jig for the mortices -

Would this be the sort of thing that would work?

Once again, thanks

Jamie

 

[Sawdust]

Hi Jamie,

Glad to have helped.

I cheated and didn't put backs in the wardrobes because the walls were sound and it was easier just to screw the uprights to the walls and work from there.

If I was going to make them free standing, I would probably put 9mm veneered MDF backs in them to aid rigidity as i find that hardboard ones tend to bend.

Your jig looks clever but depending on how many mortices you have to cut, it might be worth considering a cheap morticer. I'm not a big fan of routed mortices because they have round ends which means you either have to chisel them square or round the tenons.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Steve Maskery]

Your jig would work, yes. But with very little more work wou could build a jig which has stops for repeatability, can cut end-grain mortices (for loose tenons) as well as long-grain ones, and will cut recesses and dovetail slots too. Accurately, repeatably and quickly. Yes the round-ended nature of the joint is one aspect that needs to be understood, but if you are using loose tenons (which I do whenever I can) then simply mill up a few lengths of tenon stock and the problem is solved. A couple of hours with a thicknesser and a router table will produce enough tenon stock to last you all year. It does me, anyway.

Modesty (and forum rules) prevent me from telling you exactly where you can get such a jig, but you may find this thread helpful in your search!
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=18572

Cheers
Steve