door closers options

[Jacob]

We've got lots of fire doors with cheap spring closers which are invisible and work brilliantly but but don't soft close; the doors all clap shut very noisily.
Any particular recommendations for soft closing alternatives? There are thousands of them out there!

 

[Mike Jordan]

Hi Jacob
As one who used to write the list of requirements for this type of job, I can tell you that the words "effectively self closing" we're normally used, and intended to mean nothing short of a proper hydraulic closer.
As you say the perco type springs and even gate springs have been pressed into use but are a menace and nothing like effective enough.
If it's a hotel the banging of the spring loaded doors will soon prevent sleep and drive the customers away. In all cases in my experience the constant slamming of the door eventually causes the plasterwork to crack as the casing or frame becomes loose.
The only economic answer long term is the proper device.
Mike

 

[RobinBHM]

Unfortunately there is no invisible perco type door closer that soft closes.

They are simply a spring, so open the door, let go and the spring accerlates the door to close, with a bang!

Hydraulic closer are surface mounted and are ugly, but they operate in a more sophisticated way as they slow down at the last moment.

floor springs are also hydraulic and are invsible, just not an option for an internal door!

 

[Jacob]

.....
The only economic answer long term is the proper device.....
Mike

I agree. But which one? There seems to be thousands of them from about £20 each and upwards.
Are all the hydraulic ones soft closing? What does a £50 worth do which a cheaper one does not?
I've kicked off on ebay with a £20.75 Briton 121CE and will see how it goes.

Because of the layout of this place I have 11 fire doors. I'm happy with that as they are good for sound and heat insulation too, even better if they close nicely.

 

[Mike Jordan]

I have never found a hydraulic closer without an adjustable damper to close nice and slowly for the last few inches.
Briton is normally a sound make.

 

[morturn]

As above

When I was working we had the same problems in social housing with Perco door closers. Cracked plaster, broken fingers and lose door frames. Go for a Briton, Dorma or if cheap and cheerful is required, the Smith and Locke ant too bad.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I suspect you'll find that closers designed for fire doors will always bang, no matter how much you slow down tyhe initial closing. They are after all designed to shut tight without snagging on the last inch or so. I attempted to adjust scores of the bloody things over the years and I never found one that didn't bang shut no matter what.

 

[Lons]

As a builder I fitted a lot of those Jacob and many were replacements for aging or cheap originals. Britton is a reasonable make but the cheaper end of their range is exactly that and my experience is you can get what you pay for.

Much depends on how much use they get e.g. a hospital with hundreds of people is very different to a small factory with maybe a dozen as they will need mainenance and occasional adjustments.
Contrary to Phil though I've always managed to properly adjust all but those that are worn out.

EDIT:

Just a thought as I don't know if they exist but there might be an aftermarket fitting around to soft close the last 25mm when using a standard concealed spring, unless imagining it I think I saw something years ago in Australia. It was a heavier duty version of those sold for kitchen doors, screwed on the frame with a dampening plunger.

Something like this is the cabinet adapter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soft-Close-Da ... SwPhdVTTUN

 

[Doug71]

You can generally set the overhead closers to close quite softly as you set the closing speed and latching speed separately.

It helps to have decent quality double sprung latches, they don't need as much force to push the latch in because it is on a softer spring.

You can set some closers so you are happy with them then someone opens a window and they slam shut because the air tightness of the room makes a difference.

Doug

 

[Setch]

The anti slam device mentioned earlier is a dictator. Instalation on internal doors can be complicated by architrave profile.

Perko do make a hydraulic concealed closer, but it's pricey and a bugger to fit, requiring a beefy door and a deep mortise.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks for info.
Briton 121CE now fitted and works very well. Needed to prise off architrave and add a bit of packing (glued and screwed) as the linings were too thin for the geometry; if you want this sort of closer then it needs to be designed in from the beginning if possible, particularly if you want to fit it on the other side, which is possible with a modified frame design.
It's much stronger than the spring Eclipse (cheap version of Perco) - takes more effort to open, but closes nicely. The Eclipse you'd hardly notice it was there but it does close effectively, although with a clap.

 

[Jacob]

Found a comparison site here https://www.buildings.com/buzz/building ... oor-closer

 

[graduate_owner]

Could you just add some cushioning to soften the slam, a heavier duty version of those used in kitchen cabinets? Perhaps an intumescent strip fixed to the door stop bead?
K