Does anyone have a sharpening question?

[woodbloke66]

Worryingly, somebody called 'Jacob' just this very morning started to follow my InstaG account :lol: - Rob

 

[Trevanion]

Worryingly, somebody called 'Jacob' just this very morning started to follow my InstaG account :lol: - Rob

Same here Rob! Jacob R.B?

 

[Doug B]

when is an oilstone hollowed out enough for freehand sharpening?

It's never hollow enough until you can see through the middle

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'm less sure about the chisels though. They may cut beautifully, but will a rounded bevel cause me other problems? I guess I'll find out sooner or later.

A novel idea - try it. If it works for you, do it again. If it doesn't, don't.

 

[MikeG.]

......Mike... I would be interested to know what you do!....

Sure. Typing something on the internet seems more appealing at the moment than drawing an extension.....

After years and years of using an oilstone I now generally use 3 diamond plates mounted in a board, and a long, long leather covered stropping board, which I stick in the vice and smear with a bit of Brasso/ T Cut (same stuff). I have 300, 600 and 1200 grit plates, but the 300 is only ever used for retrieving mangled edges on new (old) tools, or, as I did the other day, if I drop a chisel and bash the corner over. Nowadays I have all my primary bevels at around 25 degrees, and I made a little jig for my belt sander to turn it into a linisher to restore this angle as and when.

With chisels, I generally sharpen freehand just on the 1200 plate, but sometimes on the 600 first. Every now and then, if the edge starts going away from 90 degrees to the edges, or if I have done any damage, I will use a honing guide to put everything back in order, but I guess this is no more than once in every 15 or 20 sharpenings. I strop vigorously, but on the bevel side I act as though the bevel were curved and raise the handle angle as the blade comes towards me. It's only a polish and tidy up, and I want to be sure that I have worked the absolute edge. On some chisels my secondary bevel gets a bit big, and for a short while I'll add another bevel, say if I am in the middle of something and don't want to stop and do a proper re-working of the edge. I've one on the go like this at the moment. When I have some spare workshop time I'll linish, then use the honing guide to restore it back to the factory settings.

Plane blades are a different matter. Here, I only do a single bevel, and I sharpen every time with a honing guide. The reason for this is that if I do it freehand I find myself picking the blade up to check on progress, and then putting it back on the stone/ plate to resume work without being sure that this is at the same angle I've just been working at. You really can drive yourself nuts trying to correct these little errors, so I take an extra 30 seconds and clamp it in a guide every time. This allows regular inspection, knowing that resumption of honing will be at precisely the same angle as before. Ultimately this means removing less metal. I strop in precisely the same way as with my chisels.

My take on the whole sharpening thing is A/ NEVER work with a tool which isn't 100% sharp. B/ understand what you are trying achieve (ie know what sharp feels like) and C/ pick a routine and stick with it. The longer you do it, the better you'll get, and the quicker and easier sharpening will be. No method is better or worse than another (well, OK, rubbing your plane blade on a paving slab .............. :lol: ). Just pick the one that works for you and get efficient at repeating that every time.

And as for the dished oilstones thing.... I was perfectly content working with a dished stone when it had a dip along its length. That was fine. Once it started getting dished across its width, too, I found I was losing the basic shape of chisel edges (don't forget I often use a 1-1/2" chisel) far too quickly so moved over to diamond plates after a brief flirtation with sandpaper-on-glass. Obviously a bowl shaped oilstone isn't too bad for most plane blades, but with all the mortises I chop by hand I find it absolutely critical to have a square edge to my chisels, and so a flat sharpening medium became more and more of an issue.

I make no claims for my method other than it works for me. Other people do it a different way, and that's fine. The argument about this is trivial. If what you are doing works for you, carry on doing it. Don't question it. Sharpening should amount to a few seconds a day, and it is far more important and interesting what we do with our sharp tools than how we get them sharp.

If Jacob was still around that monologue would have crashed the internet.

 

[MikeG.]

I needed a new bread knife, so I did some research......

Just about the hardest thing to sharpen, I reckon. Luckily, they don't need to be very sharp to work.

Ah, you’re doing it wrong if you’re finding it difficult, Mike! All you need to do is grind a back bevel on the knife rather that attacking the serrations with a slip stone. Sharpen the bevel up to 16000 and the bread practically cuts itself! 8)

Really? I mean, yes, I can see why that would work. Great tip. I'll try it on an old dead knife and see how I get on.

 

[Inspector]

No! No! No! You flatten a bench stone on a sidewalk with a weight (I use an anvil) on top in a figure eight pattern. Use two four foot long push sticks so you don't have to bend over. Saves your back. :wink: :wink:

Now I await my punishment for mocking people, not around to defend themselves. #-o

Pete

 

[Doug B]

Worryingly, somebody called 'Jacob' just this very morning started to follow my InstaG account :lol: - Rob

Same here Rob! Jacob R.B?

Doubt it's Jacob formally of this parish as your man also followed me this morning & I doubt Jacob would follow me twice

 

[MikeG.]

Worryingly, somebody called 'Jacob' just this very morning started to follow my InstaG account :lol: - Rob

Another good reason not to use Instagram.

 

[MikeG.]

Here's another thing about sharpening.....

Clean hands. Sharpening on an oilstone gives me dirty fingers, however much I try to avoid it, and the last thing you want to do to a piece of furniture under construction is smear oily fingerprints on it. That means a trip in to the house to wash my hands, and that's annoying. I find diamond plates a cleaner process, and for me, that's another point in its favour, although your mileage may vary as I'm told the Americans say.

 

[woodbloke66]

Worryingly, somebody called 'Jacob' just this very morning started to follow my InstaG account :lol: - Rob

Same here Rob! Jacob R.B?

The very same! - Rob

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've always thought the objection to water stones as being dirty odd - I'd sooner have a dirty finger mark on something than an oily one.

 

[woodbloke66]

Worryingly, somebody called 'Jacob' just this very morning started to follow my InstaG account :lol: - Rob

Another good reason not to use Instagram.

That's debatable Mike. InstaG is a good platform with loads of interesting stuff from all sorts of makers and it's quite easy to be selective about who you choose to follow and who follows you. Should the follower called 'Jacob' start to give me any grief, he simply gets 'blocked'; end of story - Rob

 

[NickM]

......Mike... I would be interested to know what you do!....

Sure. Typing something on the internet seems more appealing at the moment than drawing an extension.....

After years and years of using an oilstone I now generally use 3 diamond plates mounted in a board, and a long, long leather covered stropping board, which I stick in the vice and smear with a bit of Brasso/ T Cut (same stuff). I have 300, 600 and 1200 grit plates, but the 300 is only ever used for retrieving mangled edges on new (old) tools, or, as I did the other day, if I drop a chisel and bash the corner over. Nowadays I have all my primary bevels at around 25 degrees, and I made a little jig for my belt sander to turn it into a linisher to restore this angle as and when.

With chisels, I generally sharpen freehand just on the 1200 plate, but sometimes on the 600 first. Every now and then, if the edge starts going away from 90 degrees to the edges, or if I have done any damage, I will use a honing guide to put everything back in order, but I guess this is no more than once in every 15 or 20 sharpenings. I strop vigorously, but on the bevel side I act as though the bevel were curved and raise the handle angle as the blade comes towards me. It's only a polish and tidy up, and I want to be sure that I have worked the absolute edge. On some chisels my secondary bevel gets a bit big, and for a short while I'll add another bevel, say if I am in the middle of something and don't want to stop and do a proper re-working of the edge. I've one on the go like this at the moment. When I have some spare workshop time I'll linish, then use the honing guide to restore it back to the factory settings.

Plane blades are a different matter. Here, I only do a single bevel, and I sharpen every time with a honing guide. The reason for this is that if I do it freehand I find myself picking the blade up to check on progress, and then putting it back on the stone/ plate to resume work without being sure that this is at the same angle I've just been working at. You really can drive yourself nuts trying to correct these little errors, so I take an extra 30 seconds and clamp it in a guide every time. This allows regular inspection, knowing that resumption of honing will be at precisely the same angle as before. Ultimately this means removing less metal. I strop in precisely the same way as with my chisels.

My take on the whole sharpening thing is A/ NEVER work with a tool which isn't 100% sharp. B/ understand what you are trying achieve (ie know what sharp feels like) and C/ pick a routine and stick with it. The longer you do it, the better you'll get, and the quicker and easier sharpening will be. No method is better or worse than another (well, OK, rubbing your plane blade on a paving slab .............. :lol: ). Just pick the one that works for you and get efficient at repeating that every time.

And as for the dished oilstones thing.... I was perfectly content working with a dished stone when it had a dip along its length. That was fine. Once it started getting dished across its width, too, I found I was losing the basic shape of chisel edges (don't forget I often use a 1-1/2" chisel) far too quickly so moved over to diamond plates after a brief flirtation with sandpaper-on-glass. Obviously a bowl shaped oilstone isn't too bad for most plane blades, but with all the mortises I chop by hand I find it absolutely critical to have a square edge to my chisels, and so a flat sharpening medium became more and more of an issue.

I make no claims for my method other than it works for me. Other people do it a different way, and that's fine. The argument about this is trivial. If what you are doing works for you, carry on doing it. Don't question it. Sharpening should amount to a few seconds a day, and it is far more important and interesting what we do with our sharp tools than how we get them sharp.

If Jacob was still around that monologue would have crashed the internet.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I've no doubt that there are endless methods which achieve a good result, but, as someone just starting out, it's useful to hear from someone who clearly has a method which works in practice.

I basically have the same set up (3 x diamond stones and a leather strop) and what sounds like a similar method. I'm going to persevere without the honing guide for "everyday" sharpening and see how that goes. If the sharepening process isn't a chore, then I'm much less likely to put it off and plough on with dull edges.

Thanks again.

 

[Nigel Burden]

I use a 250 and a 600 grit diamond stone followed by a what looks like a slate then strop on a piece leather mounted on ply. I occasionally use a honing guide but generally sharpen free hand. I only use the grinder if I damage the edge or if the blade starts getting too much out of square. I've not had any issues when the bevel starts round. The biggest issue is sharpening a small chisel eg. 1/4 inch and keeping it relatively square.

Nigel.

 

[Racers]

I have to sharpen my bread knife again, but I do have a round dimond sharpener thing from Aldi/Lidl that works a treat.
I file from the hollows to the tips on each seration unitll the tips are sharp.

Pete

 

[sammy.se]

This article on the rather excellent truesourdough.com website also recommends the Mercer knife - which I have, and it is really good:

https://truesourdough.com/choosing-a-kn ... ull-guide/

It also has a section on sharpening it (!) and suggests a tapered sharpening rod.

 

[woodbloke66]

I have to sharpen my bread knife again, but I do have a round dimond sharpener thing from Aldi/Lidl that works a treat.
I file from the hollows to the tips on each seration unitll the tips are sharp.

Pete

I use a large, white paper steel Japanese chef's knife for cutting bread and it'll go insanely sharp with the Spyderco ceramic rods. Completely lethal and SWIMBO is terrified of it :lol: - Rob

 

[MikeG.]

If you're making bread that needs a knife that sharp, I humbly suggest that the issue isn't with the knife.

 

[woodbloke66]

If you're making bread that needs a knife that sharp, I humble suggest that the issue isn't with the knife.

For cutting hot bread more or less straight out the breadmaker Mike, you need something with a wicked edge. I do like hot, fresh bread, 'specially the first crust! - Rob