Do you really need a vice on a bench?

[woodbloke66]

Neat introduction to a point I wanted to include: it's worth bearing in mind that in other woodworking traditions, such as in Asia, they don't have a vice proper... or even a bench to mount it to!

For those of us who do use a bench or a convenient stand-in, there's no denying how handy a vice is – to the point where once you do have one you might well wonder how you ever got along without it!

Loads of excellent advice and my two euros worth is that yes, you do as it makes life a lot simpler when stuff gets complicated enough in a 'shop. I like simple...simple works :lol:
If Ed's referring specifically to Japan, a lot of the very clever Japanese woodwork that you see (not all by any means) is with reference to temple, shrine and other wooden buildings where the work is done outside (or in a large shed) at ground level. Strangely, there's appears to be little evidence of a diverse range of high quality cabinet work as we understand it in the west - Rob

 

[heimlaga]

If there is a will there is usually a way.
However very little actual work gets done if you are too determined to make do without proper tools.

Viceless benches were pretty much the standard in the 17th century but there are very good reasons why they went out of use. Personally I value my time too highly to want a bench without a proper front vice and a proper tailscrew vice.......... and yet I am known for making do without lots and lots of modern day "essentials" just to save money.

50 miles is a short drive for picking up a necsessary tool.

 

[Tris]

Thank you all for the advice, ideas and links. I think I will keep looking for a vice, the usual approach of if you wait and watch you'll find what you want at the price you can afford eventually. I've done a fair bit of green woodwork and turning so quite used to creative ways of holding things together so I'll muddle on in the meantime.

 

[Fitzroy]

I built a very temporary workbench in September 2017 with the plan that my first project was a proper workbench.

Since then I’ve never got round to the workbench and all my projects have been completed on a pair of benches as shown. No dog holes, holdfasts, no vice. I’ve worked out solutions using my 4 quick clamps and 4 sash clamps.

And let me tell you I’m a bloomin’ muppet it’s a right pain in the proverbial. Get a vice and save your time, your sanity, and your knuckles!

Fitz.

 

[Jacob]

Perfectly possible to work without a vice if you have to. A strong worktop or planing-beam equivalent would be handy - you can't plane over your knees but you can against stops. Boards held on edge with a door prop wedge. Chiselling vertically on the worktop or on to a saw stool whilst you sit on the workpiece......and so on. With knee height saw horses you use your bum or your knee as the vice.

 

[peter-harrison]

All of those things work ok until you try to do heavy work on a small piece of wood. Then you're ******.

 

[Just4Fun]

It's worth looking at old benches, too, as a source for vices. Benches can sell for well under the value of the vice attached to them, and even if the bench itself produces nothing but scrap wood, you get a vice for peanuts.

I asked about vices on this forum a while ago and received basically the same advice: buy a bench with a vice attached. In general it is probably good advice if you are able to find a bench locally and transport it home. In my case it proved difficult because where I am most benches do not have the same style of vice we are used to in the UK. I ended up buying an old Scandinavian-style bench which has both a face vice and end vice; both are effectively integral parts of the bench and cannot really be removed/replaced. I really don't like either and find I rarely use this bench. I stick to my old bench and I am still looking for a vice to fit on it.

So I guess I have concluded that operating without a vice is possible and can even be preferable to using an unsuitable vice. That doesn't stop me wanting a good vice though.

 

[AJB Temple]

Somewhat inspired by this thread, and with a new simple bench build in mind at some point this year, I just picked up an immaculate Record 53A (which I think came between the 53 and the 53E - though I have little knowledge). Quick release, original paint and labels, thread cover, domed head. I paid £60 all in, which was more than some of the bargains referred to here, but in my opinion is actually very cheap for a top notch large capacity vice.

I've seen a few at far higher prices on eBay that are "restored". This generally seems to mean tackily daubed in paint, including bits that should not be painted.

I suspect that they don't sell that well because most are buyer collect, which limits the market somewhat.

 

[Spence]

They aren't strictly necessary, but neither are sharp tools. But once you've worked with one you'll wonder how you got by without it. I got a big old record quick release vice for about £20 on ebay but don't buy anything expensive because they are out there in good numbers.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I sold the 53e I had with a round boss and kept the one with the square one fitted to the bench I have now. I couldn't see any difference that justified changing them over. By the bye. Don't get hung up on a quick release if a good one without it comes your way - 80% of your work to be held will probably be under two inchs and a further 15% under four inches, for the odd item that needs anything like maximum opening it doesn't take a minute to spin them out.

 

[transatlantic]

I sold the 53e I had with a round boss and kept the one with the square one fitted to the bench I have now. I couldn't see any difference that justified changing them over. By the bye. Don't get hung up on a quick release if a good one without it comes your way - 80% of your work to be held will probably be under two inchs and a further 15% under four inches, for the odd item that needs anything like maximum opening it doesn't take a minute to spin them out.

I would like to make my vice (typical record 9") into the spinny wheel type, so you can just give it a quick spin to open several inches at a time.

 

[ED65]

Quick release, original paint and labels, thread cover, domed head. I paid £60 all in, which was more than some of the bargains referred to here, but in my opinion is actually very cheap for a top notch large capacity vice.

For a good old QR I think that's a fair price, especially given how great the condition sounds. And as you say, this is actually a steal for a vice of this standard. I paid nearly as much for my old Woden which was much more heavily worn, and was happy that I'd gotten a bargain.

I've seen a few at far higher prices on eBay that are "restored". This generally seems to mean tackily daubed in paint, including bits that should not be painted.

Gah, I do hate that. I saved photos of this abomination last week:

 

[Trevanion]

Gah, I do hate that. I saved photos of this abomination last week:

Farmer's own Red Oxide Primer! :lol:

 

[GLFaria]

If a leg-vice suits your kind of work, you can simply build your own, like I did.
You just need to buy a screw with its accessories. At most, if the screw is in really bad state, you may need to polish its threads - as I needed to.

Although a leg-vice is conceptually simple, its building requires accurate work, relatively low tolerances, and good alignement of parts if a smooth movement is to be achieved (a bit of dry lubricant sprayed on the screw also helps). Of course, borrowing from Benchcrafted the idea of running the guide on rollers helps a lot.

In my view, if the smoothness of the displacement of the chop is ensured the pitch of this type of screw makes a quick release unnecessary. Mine is smallish at a diameter of 30mm and 8mm pitch, and I find it quite fast. But your needs may be different from mine.

As for the woods to use - well, I used an assortment from my scrap stock, which is never big (lack of space). The chop is a lamination of 3 pieces of 2" thick northern pine, reinforced with a 20mm thick pine board on the outside and a 10mm thick bamboo board (remains of flooring stock) on the inside. The (false) leg is built likewise. The guide is 10mm bamboo, carefully planed and flattened.
The jaws are 150mm wide, open to about 170mm or thereabouts, and the clearance from the screw is 200mm. Plenty enough for my needs.

I didn't use any bench-press to hold the parts as I built them, just bench-dogs, planing stops, cramps, and occasionally a hold-down. The vice comes in handy, but is not an absolute need.
Cheers