Dissapointment from Ashley Iles

[Trevanion]

Hi Trevanion. I personally have 4 of their chisels and have nothing bad to say about them. They have all been pretty flat already and hardly any work at all, and the edge retention seems pretty good so far. One of mine was a bit off centre to the handle, but nothing that would affect the usage. Where did you buy the chisel from, distributer or directly? It sounds like you’ve had a bad example!? I wouldn’t dismiss them based on 1 example

That's not the only chisel I've got with problems, It's just the only one I've ever bought myself (Which I bought from Classic Handtools). The rest I've come into acquisition over the years. The ferrules thing annoys me more than anything else just because it's such a simple thing to get right and for years now they've never resolved the issue. I buy 16SWG brass tubing for the chisels I've made and handles I've done over the years and so far nothing has gone wrong and I don't think it ever will.

I'm not dismissing Ashey Iles as it once was a very reputable company and made decent stuff, but I'm not happy with the way things are now and I believe with their setup they could be producing tools of a much higher standard than the stuff I've seen as of late.

 

[ColeyS1]

Very neat! I could do with being that organised

Thanks, it's so much safer now.

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[ColeyS1]

Not trying to upset you but Robert sorby sent me a free 2" chisel as an apology, after I had received a Friday afternoon chisel from them.

They even selotaped my postage cost to the letter in small change!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Adidat

Now that is customer service and some !

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[johnnyb]

I have to have a go at UK tool makers. But I've got some carving chisels by Ashley illes and there hilariously clunky. In comparison with golden age chisels there nowhere near. My favourite Carver's are Henry Taylor's. Followed by stubai. Henry Taylor's are at least made old style but there a bit soft. Ashley illes seem to have an odd way of making to me. I've got a matched set of herring Bros. Sold by tirantis probably Edwardian that are simply stunning.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

While we're on ferrules, I've found these fine -
http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/?s=ferrules

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

While we're on ferrules, I've found these fine -
http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/?s=ferrules

I also have a mixed set of these and find them pretty good

 

[Racers]

Me too, but running short of some sizes!

Pete

 

[Bodgers]

Hate to break it to you, but generally the cost in time and effort for a company like this, to set everything up and make a one-off, just is not worth anything to them.... that you could afford, anyway. It'd be like asking Volkswagen to make you a one-off custom MkIV Golf, or something. Unless you'd be willing to spend several hundred (possibly even thousand) quid for just a simple butt chisel, you're spit outta luck I'm afraid. Better off finding a small independent maker of such things.

I once visited APEM and asked them about making me a custom joystick - They make the kit I use for PC flight sims, y'see.... they also make all the controls for every JCB out there, Aston Martin, many industrial controls, and a whole host of military kit.
Their basic upshot was that, unless I was ordering at least 15,000 units a month, it wasn't worth their time. They even offered to sell me the PC division of their business, which would have been a very good investment if I'd had the cash to hand... and it wasn't as much as you'd think.

But still, custom one-offs are a right royal PITA for anyone not geared up to it, and flippin' expensive for the customer. This is why I took up woodworking and making custom pieces for my own self.

I explained I've got over 20 of their chisels and it would have been nice if the larger one matched "um...no" was the response. How miserable !!!!
Oh well at least their so busy they don't have to worry about looking after their existing customers lol.

20..... is that all? There are teachers and schools and YouTubers out there with at least ten times that many. What makes you special?

Sorry to seem harsh, but a friend of mine tries that trick with both the car parts and computer parts suppliers he uses if ever they get something wrong, or (far more commonly) he wants a sly favour - It's always, "Do you know how much I spend with you every month? I'm one of your biggest customers"....
To be fair, he does spend about £4,000 a month on computer parts and probably twice that on car parts. But that is still small fry stuff compared to their actual biggest customers.

Whilst I totally agree with you on the principle, I think a VW Golf or PC Joystick are both far more complex items built by much larger organisations at much larger quantities using manufacturing processes that are relatively rigid.

We are talking about a boutique maker, manufacturing, what is basically a very nice cast/machined bit of high quality steel. With a handle on it.

That's not to say they have to do anything of course, it is their business after all...

 

[Neil S]

Poor response from the person taking the call IMO.
If the reason was that it is not economically viable to produce a one off chisel then they could have quite simply said so.
Not just "we're too busy" as that sounds like a fob off and they don't care.

-Neil

 

[Inspector]

..............what is basically a very nice cast/machined bit of high quality steel. With a handle on it.

There is no casting involved to making a chisel. Actually it would be drop forged through a series of special dies. Heat/smash several times through a series of dies, then sent for machining/grinding, heat treat, finish grinding, putting on a handle and so on. Unless they have made them in the past they won't have the dies which are expensive to make and take time it set to use. No production maker will entertain the idea for a one off.

A small forge would take the metal, hammer it to size, grind, heat treat, finish grind, handle, sharpen and charge you a hundred or two.

The OP has the choice of doing without since it was unlikely they were made by Ashley Iles that size. Or finding a tool/knife maker that will forge one (search knife makers). He could also get a piece of steel and grind and shape it with a sander, send it out for heat treat and then finish it off himself. A little harder would be to use the metal removal method knife makers use by getting hardened steel and grind it all the way to a finished blade.

 

[ColeyS1]

Ta da !

That killed a minute or so lol. Need to glue up a door before I leave today- the joints are a little snug though....

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[Tasky]

Whilst I totally agree with you on the principle, I think a VW Golf or PC Joystick are both far more complex items built by much larger organisations at much larger quantities using manufacturing processes that are relatively rigid.

Well, the Golf IV maybe, although it can't be that difficult to make something so shoddy...
As for the joystick - it's mostly fairly cheap plastic, used in a design that has not changed since the 1980s and can be serviced with parts bought in a shop (back in the days when Maplins and Radio Shack were still a thing, anyway).

But the principle is the same as Inspector said - "Unless they have made them in the past they won't have the dies which are expensive to make and take time it set to use. No production maker will entertain the idea for a one off. "

For a closer example - Coins. Friend of mine collects historic ones, but wanted to make his own up. He's seen a couple of people doing this at medieval fairs and the like. To buy, the coins would cost maybe 20p on top of cost of material (ie, a bit of pewter or something), but the die set for just one coin costs several hundred.

 

[Bm101]

Go on Coley. Make one.

Bit of O1 flat stock. What could possibly be a better use of your time. (*giggles )

Look Mum I'm an Hengin-ear.

Jooooooonny's in the basement mixing up the medicine, I'mmmmmmmm down the garden cookin' up some O1. Look out Kid... No really Kid. Stand back I'm on the cider looking for cherry red you're in ma way. P*ss off and ask your Mum where your bike is.

Oooooooh. Purty.
Plunged in oil and also moved about a bit. I read it on the internet. It reduces scale.

The Exact Same Scale you can see on the bottom of the blades here. :roll:

I haven't done much of this stuff. More than your average person would even dream of doing (goes without saying lol) but far less than many on here. I've tried various ways of cleaning up. From my reliably inaccurate (free) Clarkey sanding belt and different grades to diamond plates, wet and dry, a bit of dowel with a notch in the end and steel wool taped up with tape. What price a Linisher? Dunno but more than I have spare.

Then I had A Bit Of An Idea.

Bit of a faff tbh.
(That's cutting out strips of a non loading 400 grit paper I got from Workshop Heaven some time back. Nice stuff. No better no worse than any diehard's favourites. Just a heads up.
https://www.workshopheaven.com/stearate ... -grit.html )
Bits of duct tape and lidle polishing mop. lol.
Faff. It works well though and gives a good finish for what you're working with on a budget.
Actually prefer the 400 grit to when I've polished before I think.
Each to their own. (Yada Yada Yada)

Still need to fit it, give it an initial grind and temper it in the oven but it's possible Coley.

:wink:
What else you gotta do with your time? Make money? Pay your Mortgage?

If you had a local engineer on an industrial estate who could grind the bevel of the full back accurately for a chisel... O
Those small firms seem to be dying out now due to market forces. Shop full of gear but no orders because the world has changed.
They are about. Shame to say I wonder for how much longer.

Sorry for the derail. Hope it's after the nature of the thread.
Cheers now.
Chris

 

[Bm101]

Driving to Bermondsey this morning at 4 AM and for whatever mad reason the old grey matter diverts it's full attention from avoiding lorries and dying a horrible burning death on the hard shoulder on the M25 and starts off all: Most hinges are 3"!
WTF Coley! Are you trying to kill me or what? :|
Eight uneventful hours later I got home I had a very sneaky gin and tonic to calm my nerves. Then another one just in case.
And I got to thinking.
(homer)

If you were to make a Dedicated Hinge Chisel (all rights reserved to BM101/Coley Enterprises 51/49 split) You'd really want a 75mm width. Thats a knife wall and a little spare either end.
Warming up to this at the back now aren't we? I can see you getting excitable Blue Spruce and Veritas. Well sod off. You missed the bus on this one lads.
The average thickness of an Ashley Isles 2" framer is about 1/4". But this is not a framer so even with a bit of caution lets say 6mm because we need to buy it from a metric website. And make it, so it's going to end up thinner.
500 x 75 x 6mm O1 = £17
https://www.groundflatstock.com/Shop/En ... tock-500mm
Even if you bought it at 15 mm thick for handle strength etc ground down by an engineer with a mill etc its £32 plus maybe 30 notes for a drink for the friendly engineer. Or whack it on a grinder yourself for nowt... Doesn't have to look pretty just needs to taper from tang to workable thickness at the cutting end. 8)
Just a thought. :wink:
*everyone chants' Coley! Coley! Coley Coley!

(No pressure though mate.)

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

"Do it... do it... do it!!"

 

[El Barto]

The same thing happened to me. They weren't rude but it was disappointing all the same. I ended up getting a Narex 2" chisel which is ok but would much prefer such a beast to be in "butt form". I have a 1" Narex butt chisel and it's excellent.

 

[AndyT]

Interesting discussion. Highly unlikely that they could have made you a one off at a price you'd want to pay, but it would have been better all round if the person on the phone had explained that.
As Inspector said, for forging, the expense would be in the dies, and nobody makes an ordinary chisel wider than 2".
I've looked back at 19th and 20th century catalogues and can confirm that that's always been so, except for timber framing or shipbuilding, but they are really a different tool.

However, briefly, there used to be an exception. How do you like these from the 1928 Marples Catalogue?

No puny 2½" size here - how hard would you need to push to use a chisel 9" wide?

The answer (somewhat disappointingly) is that (as far as I can deduce) these were for cutting leather, not wood. Specifically, they were for cutting accurate bevels in thick leather which was stuck on rollers, used in cotton spinning mills. There used to be a specialist trade in maintaining the thousands of rollers. You can read a little bit more about it here:

http://www.taths.org.uk/queries/170-the ... r-s-chisel

 

[ColeyS1]

Wowsers Chris, that's quite a wip !! Nice one. I really don't need any more hobbies/projects though lol. What made you decide to try making your own ? Curiosity?

Cheers
Coley

Go on Coley. Make one.

Bit of O1 flat stock. What could possibly be a better use of your time. (*giggles )

Look Mum I'm an Hengin-ear.

Jooooooonny's in the basement mixing up the medicine, I'mmmmmmmm down the garden cookin' up some O1. Look out Kid... No really Kid. Stand back I'm on the cider looking for cherry red you're in ma way. P*ss off and ask your Mum where your bike is.

Oooooooh. Purty.
Plunged in oil and also moved about a bit. I read it on the internet. It reduces scale.

The Exact Same Scale you can see on the bottom of the blades here. :roll:

I haven't done much of this stuff. More than your average person would even dream of doing (goes without saying lol) but far less than many on here. I've tried various ways of cleaning up. From my reliably inaccurate (free) Clarkey sanding belt and different grades to diamond plates, wet and dry, a bit of dowel with a notch in the end and steel wool taped up with tape. What price a Linisher? Dunno but more than I have spare.

Then I had A Bit Of An Idea.

Bit of a faff tbh.
(That's cutting out strips of a non loading 400 grit paper I got from Workshop Heaven some time back. Nice stuff. No better no worse than any diehard's favourites. Just a heads up.
https://www.workshopheaven.com/stearate ... -grit.html )
Bits of duct tape and lidle polishing mop. lol.
Faff. It works well though and gives a good finish for what you're working with on a budget.
Actually prefer the 400 grit to when I've polished before I think.
Each to their own. (Yada Yada Yada)

Still need to fit it, give it an initial grind and temper it in the oven but it's possible Coley.

:wink:
What else you gotta do with your time? Make money? Pay your Mortgage?

If you had a local engineer on an industrial estate who could grind the bevel of the full back accurately for a chisel... O
Those small firms seem to be dying out now due to market forces. Shop full of gear but no orders because the world has changed.
They are about. Shame to say I wonder for how much longer.

Sorry for the derail. Hope it's after the nature of the thread.
Cheers now.
Chris

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[ColeyS1]

Driving to Bermondsey this morning at 4 AM and for whatever mad reason the old grey matter diverts it's full attention from avoiding lorries and dying a horrible burning death on the hard shoulder on the M25 and starts off all: Most hinges are 3"!
WTF Coley! Are you trying to kill me or what? :|
Eight uneventful hours later I got home I had a very sneaky gin and tonic to calm my nerves. Then another one just in case.
And I got to thinking.
(homer)

If you were to make a Dedicated Hinge Chisel (all rights reserved to BM101/Coley Enterprises 51/49 split) You'd really want a 75mm width. Thats a knife wall and a little spare either end.
Warming up to this at the back now aren't we? I can see you getting excitable Blue Spruce and Veritas. Well sod off. You missed the bus on this one lads.
The average thickness of an Ashley Isles 2" framer is about 1/4". But this is not a framer so even with a bit of caution lets say 6mm because we need to buy it from a metric website. And make it, so it's going to end up thinner.
500 x 75 x 6mm O1 = £17
https://www.groundflatstock.com/Shop/En ... tock-500mm
Even if you bought it at 15 mm thick for handle strength etc ground down by an engineer with a mill etc its £32 plus maybe 30 notes for a drink for the friendly engineer. Or whack it on a grinder yourself for nowt... Doesn't have to look pretty just needs to taper from tang to workable thickness at the cutting end. 8)
Just a thought. :wink:
*everyone chants' Coley! Coley! Coley Coley!

(No pressure though mate.)

I looked at that link for the metal. I don't think I'd have the skill to make one...nicely, or to any respectable standard anyway. How would I go about cutting the shape going to the tang ? Wouldn't an angle grinder overheat the metal and damage it? I can't help but think I'd make a right dogs dinner of it [WINKING FACE]

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[ColeyS1]

"Do it... do it... do it!!"

Don't you start as well ! Ha

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