Decent try square

[Stevedimebag]

Hi folks,

Looking for recommendations on a decent try square. 6 or 9 inch probably but less worries about the size as opposed to making sure it's accurate and true.

Which brands are decent for under £20 say? Looking at the starrett one that is only about £6 on amazon. Seems decent and they are a trusted brand, however couple of reviews saying thy aren't square...kind of defeats the purpose.

Anyways, appreciate any suggestions

 

[Rorschach]

Any square could be not square either through poor manufacture or damage. I have cheap square and more expensive squares, they are all square but not all of them arrived that way.
I am sure the starrett one will be very nice, if it's not perfectly square you will have two choices, return it and get another or fix it yourself.

 

[ED65]

Can you buy anywhere locally where you can check the try squares for square? It's fairly standard advice to do so since they are, amazingly, so often not square. If it came to it you can adjust try squares in various ways to correct them, but except on a vintage one it's not a job you should have to do.

An alternative to the traditional woodworking one is a machinists' square, which are guaranteed square to certain levels and even the least accurate is more than good enough for our purposes.

 

[Brandlin]

EVERY square will be NOT SQUARE

The real issue is "How square is square enough for your purpose?"

 

[MikeG.]

My best square is my cheapest one.

Here's your technique for testing them in the shop (take a steel ruler with you): find a straight piece of counter-top without a round-over. Or a glass display cabinet. Or a sheet of melamine. Offer the square up to the edge, and place the ruler carefully alongside to mark the position, then carefully remove the square, and without disturbing the ruler, flip the square over and slide it towards the ruler. If it touches either end first (have your glasses on!!), reject the square and test another.

 

[Stevedimebag]

Thanks for the advice folks. True enough about the starrett - I will just buy it and if it's no good I'll just send it back.

Unfortunately in the Scottish Borders I'm limited to stores with fine woodworking tools. Any merchants are completely overpriced and b and q don't have much selection.

 

[Billy Flitch]

Quality tools are still produced in Sheffield. But like any tool if its not up to the job send it back.
http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... quare.html

 

[richarddownunder]

Quality tools are still produced in Sheffield. But like any tool if its not up to the job send it back.
http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... quare.html

=D>

 

[Farmer Giles]

Toolman squares, made in Sheffield.

I bought several Faithful squares, one out of three was close enough to be called a square, I didn't even think they could get that wrong!

I bought one Toolman and it was bang on and they get good reviews so probably not a fluke.

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks for the link farmer Giles
Always wondered if you could get that Joseph Marples trial 1 stuff singularly
Some nice tools
Tom

 

[Stevedimebag]

Some great info guys. Wish I had seen the Sheffield ones before ordering my starrett.
If it's no good I'll go straight for one if those.

 

[MikeG.]

Toolman squares, made in Sheffield.

I bought several Faithful squares, one out of three was close enough to be called a square, I didn't even think they could get that wrong!

I bought one Toolman and it was bang on and they get good reviews so probably not a fluke.

Yeah, I'm afraid your sample of one may have been misleading. I have one of their squares, and it is a country mile out. I'm saving it only for the steel, which I'll make something useful out of one day.

Before anyone asks, I didn't buy it. It was a gift.

 

[bugbear]

Looking for recommendations on a decent try square. 6 or 9 inch probably but less worries about the size as opposed to making sure it's accurate and true.

How accurate do you need? What error (say at the tip) would render the square useless?

1/8" 1/64" 1/100" 1/1000" 1/10,000" ?

Square at all these accuracies are available, although the price varies. 8)

If your answer is "I want it exactly square" no one can help you. Such a thing is not, and cannot be, made.

BugBear

 

[Stevedimebag]

Doesn't have to be perfect but accurate, for example (and at a guess) within .25 mm over 150mm.

I've ordered the starrett - if it's no good ill be going for a marples Sheffield square as they are tested to 0.01mm per 10mm.

 

[Brandlin]

Doesn't have to be perfect but accurate, for example (and at a guess) within .25 mm over 150mm.

I've ordered the starrett - if it's no good ill be going for a marples Sheffield square as they are tested to 0.01mm per 10mm.

0.01 over 10 ? are you sure thats right?

0.01 per 10 mm is an accuracy of 99.9%. That's 1 mm out over a length of a metre or to put it another way 1.2 mm out over the width of a full sheet of ply, or 2.4 mm out over the length of the sheet.

In engineering terms that's not accurate at all.

Now i recognise that you wouldn't use a 200 mm square to mark an entire sheet of ply. And I realise that woodworking is generally not dealing with tolerances similar to those in precision engineering. But either way 0.1 mm over 10 mm shouldn't be a level of accuracy that a tool manufacturer would boast about?

 

[Stevedimebag]

That's what it says anyway.

 

[MikeG.]

.........If your answer is "I want it exactly square" no one can help you. Such a thing is not, and cannot be, made........

That's simply not true.

I think what you meant to say is that such a thing cannot be claimed, or cannot be made every time. But your words are suggesting that 89.99999 degrees and 90.000001 degrees can be made, but never 90. In other words, 90 degrees is the only angle that a square can never be. It is perfectly possible that the very worst manufacturer can turn out the occasional square which is absolutely bang-on 90 degrees, albeit they, and we, would never know.

 

[Farmer Giles]

Toolman squares, made in Sheffield.

I bought several Faithful squares, one out of three was close enough to be called a square, I didn't even think they could get that wrong!

I bought one Toolman and it was bang on and they get good reviews so probably not a fluke.

Yeah, I'm afraid your sample of one may have been misleading. I have one of their squares, and it is a country mile out. I'm saving it only for the steel, which I'll make something useful out of one day.

Before anyone asks, I didn't buy it. It was a gift.

Do you have the round or diamond shaped rivet model?

I can vaguely remember being well and truly annoyed after sending back the Faithful "squares" and looking for a vendor that tested them before dispatch without costing an arm and a leg. The round rivet cheaper models have no mention of testing before dispatch but the diamond ones do, 6 quid more for the 150mm model, still under 20 quid.

Here's the cheaper version's blurb.

"Used for marking out right angles and checking for squareness. The rosewood stock is fixed to the blade by three brass rivets. The blade itself is chemically blued to help prevent corrosion. The stock is fitted with a brass plate to provide a hard working edge, which ensures a long working life. Square to to BS 3322"


and the dearer one, with a bit more emphasis on testing and tolerences

"Used for marking out right angles and checking for squareness. The stocks are made of Rosewood, the blade from tempered, blued steel. They have a machined brass face for protection against damage and accuracy. The blade is secured by means of 3 brass diamond washer and steel rivet. The rosewood stocks found on the carpenter's square result in an attractive tool. Manufactured to British Standard BS3322. The squares are tested on both the inside and outside faces, our specification for the internal angle is twice as accurate as that specified in the British Standard, an accuracy better than 0.01mm/10mm blade length. All TOOLMAN squares are tested during manufacture and prior to despatch. They are tested on both internal and external faces. the internal faces are accurate to better than 0.001" nominal size"

There is no excuse, the cheaper one should be square too, but I'm happy with the one I have got, I think the test prior to posting is the key, if they do what the blurb says. I do need to buy another square so may test the theory.

I bought a Bahco 450mm combination square recently, miles out and its genuine not a copy. Made in the far east, ironically I tested squareness with a Bahco fixed square made in Sweden that is square

 

[bugbear]

.........If your answer is "I want it exactly square" no one can help you. Such a thing is not, and cannot be, made........

That's simply not true.

I think what you meant to say is that such a thing cannot be claimed, or cannot be made every time. But your words are suggesting that 89.99999 degrees and 90.000001 degrees can be made, but never 90. In other words, 90 degrees is the only angle that a square can never be. It is perfectly possible that the very worst manufacturer can turn out the occasional square which is absolutely bang-on 90 degrees, albeit they, and we, would never know.

Werner Heisenberg says it's impossible. There is a big conceptual gap between very small and zero.

But Moore and Wright, Starrett, Browne & Sharpe, Mitutoyo all make stuff that has very small errors, at a price.

BugBear

 

[MikeG.]

.......Do you have the round or diamond shaped rivet model?........

Round

As an aside, my two most accurate squares are combination squares.