Dare I ask!

[DiscoStu]

Ok it's a sharpening question!

I'm not very good at sharpening using a grinder by hand.

I have the following things that I'd like to sharpen.

Chisels
Planes
Axe
Wood turning tools

My biggest issue is with the turning tools - not too concerned about the others as I seem to do ok with these with a diamond stone and strop.

Turning tools are a different matter and they do seem to need regular sharpening. I currently have a cheap Clarke grinder with wet stone attachment. It's not the best.

What I need is something where I can use a job and get excellent results so my question is:

Which one? Pro Edge, Tomak, or one of the jobs for a standard grinder (as I've seen in the Axminster catalogue). I don't want to do this by hand, I want to get excellent results with minimal effort and certainly not rely on my skill. Are the Triton, Scheppach any good?




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[whittler1507]

Oh dear you have opened a can of worms here.....

 

[custard]

I'm not that far from you (on the coast, a few miles west of Southampton), if you want to stop by my workshop and try a Pro Edge then drop me a PM.

 

[DiscoStu]

Custard I'd be interested to take you up on that. I'm very much muddling about so would be good to get some more knowledge.


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[CHJ]

Since the day I started this has been my grinding setup, well not exactly I did fit the blue crystalline wheel to the left hand side as an upgrade.
Still the same wheels and the wide white one gets dressed about once a year at most.
Some 2000+ individual turnings of use with two to three touch-up sharpening's on most pieces. (one favourite bowl gouge almost too short for general use now)
Don't think my output quality would improve much by spending a great deal more.

Basically what I'm saying is that it does not have to be a shiny Rolls Royce to get from A to B, just has to do the job reliably.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

I have the Tormek with the turning tools kit, and it sharpens my assorted turning tools quickly and without fuss. I am therefore entirely satisfied with it.

Also it's pretty good on kitchen knives and scissors and chisels and so on and so forth. Though the scissors make a horrible screeching noise at the ends.

 

[Inoffthered]

Try a Worksharp, i have mothballed my grinder and water stones since buying one.

 

[NazNomad]

How does the Worksharp cope with a bowl gouge or an axe?

 

[Rhossydd]

If you afford the Pro Edge go for it, at the very least take up Custard's offer of a demonstration.

For turning tools; I used a normal grinder for years with home made jigs like Chas's ones above which work OK, but the SPE is a significant step forward in easy of use and versatility. I did try a wet stone grinder for turning tools, but it was so painfully slow I gave up with it.
The SPE jigs work well, being both simple and quick to set up and repeatable. The ability to use different grades of belt allows everything from heavy duty shaping, routine medium grade sharpening and super fine sharpening for excellent fine edges on skew chisels etc.
It also does a great job on normal chisels and plane blades too.

It's a big investment and the running costs are higher than most other solutions, but I don't think the results can be beaten. If I had all my turning kit stolen the SPE would be first on the list for a no alternative replacement.

 

[DiscoStu]

For me it just needs to be ***** proof and not rely on me holding the tools at the right angle etc.


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[Inoffthered]

How does the Worksharp cope with a bowl gouge or an axe?

The Tormek jigs work on a Worksharp.

As for an axe, you could use the adjustable tool rest.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

I did try a wet stone grinder for turning tools, but it was so painfully slow I gave up with it.

It only takes a couple of seconds on the Tormek to touch up a tool's edge. Slow for significant reshaping, certainly, but not for sharpening.

 

[DiscoStu]

I'm happy to regularly sharpen to keep an edge once it's be shaped but my issue is that at the moment I get a different shape every time I try and sharpen. Are the jigs on the Tormek fool proof? Is the Tormek worth the extra compared to the Triton or Scheppach equivalents (or jet or record).


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[Sporky McGuffin]

Not entirely fool proof, but they make it very easy. If you put a tool in and left it on one side as the stone turned it'd only grind that side, but by locking the angle and extension you can get very consistent results.

I can't comment on the others as the Tormek is all I've used.

 

[Rhossydd]

Are the jigs on the Tormek fool proof?

No jig is totally foolproof, the truly incapable seem to be able to mess up anything ;-)
The Tormek jigs are fine, but in the long term you need to keep an eye on any wear on the wheel, re-true it up and adjust the jigs to compensate.
The SPE doesn't suffer those issues by design.

The advantage of the wet stone grinders is that they cut so slowly it takes much longer to mess things up.

 

[NazNomad]

As above, you can always make something foolproof, but you can never make it damn-fool proof. :-D

 

[CHJ]

One thing that is critical with the Tormek, and any other wetstone unit for that matter when touching up turning gouges with a jig is that you keep a Tormek style grinding jig set up for a given tool and only leave the length of tool protrusion as a variable if you want a quick 'Touch N Turn' repeat as Tormek refer to it.

That's not saying you can not move the jig to whatever you like for different tools but it will take considerably longer to reset "EXACTLY" like your last grind. This is even advocated in the Tormek demonstration DVD by Jeff Farris.

On a standard dry grinder or a belt grinder like the SPE the very small differences in nose angle from a reset of the jig are of less consequence as the wheel/belt removes the off-set material very quickly.
Even so to achieve maximum speed of tool touch up I keep two Tormek/Tormek-style jigs permanently set to my two main bevel angles.

One other problem if you're into Flat Work and a prolific turner or need to reshape turning tools at all is that the soft wetstones can become grooved very quickly when working with bowl and spindle gouges and need dressing before being suitable for plane and chisel blade sharpening, to someone only doing turning of course this is not so critical.



This old review of a Tormek might be of interest.

Watching someone like Cornucopia free-hand sharpening his tools on his Tormek is cause for admiration as he has no jig restrictions to cope with, but I for one still need the crutch of a jig for many tools to maintain the speed and reduce the frustration of mistakes.

 

[Jelly]

Just as an aside from the main question, I find it easiest to sharpen axes by holding them in a vice and using a file to establish the bevel, tidy it up with a scythe stone or big slipstones and then finish off with a soft cloth wheel and abrasive compound at the Grinder...

Most axes are tempered to be softer than files but harder than trees (to make for a tougher striking tool than if it was very very hard), but its comparatively variable depending on age and maker though.

 

[MusicMan]

I've used a Tormek for many years (and replaced it after it was stolen). The jigs are the best thing about it, as they do ensure repeatable results very easily. Wheel truing is straightforward. It does take a while to remove a lot of material, but not an impossibly long time, and I have rebound badly damaged chisels and planer blades (from hitting nails).

I have used a Pro Edge at a public workshop and am very impressed with it. If I had to re-equip I'd look seriously at it. Yes it is costly but cheaper than the Tormek. Again, you can use Tormek jigs on it for thumbnail gauges etc.

The one thing I find indispensable on the Tormek is the planer jig for sharpening thicknesser/planer blades. It earns its keep after about three sharpenings compared to buying replacement blades, and the blades are more likely to be sharpened. I don't know if this jig will fit on the SPE or whether an equivalent is available.

Keith

 

[DiscoStu]

Thanks guys. I'm not sure I'm much clearer as to the path to take except to say that these options all seem to give me repeatable results with straightforward use. I'd still be keen to know what people think of the Triton or Scheppach options?


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