Dad Driven Dilemma - tools for XMas

[Wylie2112]

Hello, gang!

Short-term lurker here hoping to ask for a bit of advice and help with a problem my Dad has created for me. :ho2 Dad has said he'll contribute $100 to any new tool I want to buy. So, the question is, what next?

I'm totally new and novice-like in woodworking, specifically trying to learn proper handtool skills, but have decided to give it a try. I've built a Beaufort Force 5 bench (high waves throughout) in my garage and collected a few second hand tools.

I'm just starting my first project so don't really have any experience of what I've gotten used to, found a need for, wished I'd had, etc. I'm building a large-ish bookcase out of cherry which is requiring three planks to be joined to form each shelf, and each side of the carcase. (There'll be another thread later today regarding T&G with the Record 50).

In my toolbox I currently have:

Stanley No. 4
Stanley No. 5
LN block plane (also a gift from Dad - bless!)
Stanley router (77 or 78, I think)
spokeshave
japanese double-edge saw I use for everything
assortment of second hand chisels
marking and measuring tools

Those seemed like some good basics to get started and I thought I'd let project needs drive acquisition of any other tools beyond that. I'm not particularly a tool hound but do believe in right tool for the job.

So, new tool thoughts were:

My planing skills are crude and I'm not very good at getting the edge of a board straight and true. I seem to roll the plane along the length of a board (as in airplane roll) so it takes on a warped edge from one end to the other. I'm getting better but not brilliant and, considering how much jointing I'll need to do on this project, I got to thinking. I usually use the No. 4 or 5 for this work but was looking at the Veritas Edge Trimming Plane. Would love to know if you guys think it's a good tool and a good next acquisition.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 1182,48945

Second thought was for a shoulder plane or rabbet plane or somesuch for making house joints and such. Thing is, I don't really know much about what those tools can do or how to use them (and got the Record 50 because I thought it could do most of that work)

Third thought was a bullnose plane, but not entirely sure that adds a lot over the Record 50 and the router (am I missing something here?)

Last thought was for a set of butt chisels as I've found most of the work I end up doing with chisels I would feel more comfortable with a grip closer to the work than a standard chisel gives.

So, this novice is asking for the collective wisdom of the thousands of years of experience to be found here to make best use of my Dad's XMas cash.

Over to you and many thanks in advance! I'm enjoying the heck out of just reading the various threads here and they always make me want to go out into the shop and make firewood.

Shawn :ho2

 

[Lord Nibbo]

Hi Wylie,
Welcome and I do hope you post some more.

What a lovely introduction of yourself, and what a good dad you have.

I suspect this may end up being a very long and expensive thread for your dad :lol:

All your suggestions for tools would be excellent additions to an allready good tool collection.

Have you thought about power tools? Maybe a really good cordless drill or what about a router?

I expect you will get many other good suggestions, hope we see more of you though and maybe even some pics. :lol:

 

[Wylie2112]

Lord Nibbo,

Thanks very much! Nice to be welcomed so warmly.

I've decided on the tools I've bought so far largely based on what I've read in various threads here, so I'm sure the advice will be excellent. Dad has limited his budget to $100 so, if I'm going to make up the difference, this could be a very expensive thread for ME!

I've stayed away from power tools because the whole reason for taking up the hobby is to learn handskills of the old style. I was looking at a piece of 19th century cabinetry the other day and was amazed at the precision and accuracy of something that was made by hand. I don't yet know how they did it, but I'd like to learn. That and I work with my head all day. My hands are pretty useless for anything other than typing. I'd like to teach them a real craft.

Power router sounds like a good idea but I think my lack of control (remember my woodshop days from school) would make it the fastest wood-waster on the planet. Already have a power drill, my only power tool, so good suggestion there. So good, in fact, I'd already done it!

Thanks again. Very interested to hear the various opinions people will have!

Shawn

 

[Anonymous]

I would encourage you to spend the money on tuition, if your Dad is agreeable.
The best gift you could give yourself is a proper grounding in basic techniques from an experienced teacher.

You will be saving yourself lots of disappointments and frustration than by going it alone.
The best tool in any toolbox is knowledge of technique.

Once you have grasped the basics you will be back here jawing off to all and sundry the correct way to do this and that

 

[Waka]

Wylie

Welcome to the forum, as LN said nice introduction.

You could start gong down the power tool route, but as you have indicated you have prolems with planing edges square. I have the LN version of the edging plane and it is fine for small work but not good on large boards.

You could go for the Veritas #7 jointer and fence, this will give you a good edge if used properly.

The other option is to ask for books/DVD's on planing, David Charlesworth or Rob Cosman produce some worthwhile ones.

Or you could go for a nice dovetail saw and cross cut tenon saw, this will enhance your tool kit.

Keep posting and let us know how you get on.

 

[Alf]

Welcome to the forum, Shawn.

Well as jointing edges seems to be next on your agenda, that would seem to be the area to take advantage of your dad's generosity. Can't speak for using an edge trimming plane, but a couple of ways you could approach it strike me. Either way a dedicated jointer plane would seem to be a Good Thing; choice between new or used dependent on your bit of the budget :wink: Then two options, either going with a jointer fence of some sort (can just be a rebated bit of wood clamped on) or learning how to do it unencumbered with fences. Match planing is one option, but personally I favour using a cambered edge and if you were going to go that way then I suggest some of the budget going on David Charlesworth's hand planing DVD, simply 'cos it has one of the more comprehensible explanations of how to go about it.

Other than that, I think you might find a shoulder plane a useful addition and there's a shocking lack of saws there. :shock:

Ah, it's so easy spending other people's money... :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Shawn,

Welcome to the forum. I would say get yourself a good #7 plane (Clifton, LN or Veritas) but don't bother with the fence thingy. Get yourself some good tuition in how to use it properly or get the David Charlesworth DVD and teach yourself.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Shawn

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil

 

[engineer one]

i think i agree with every body about tuition in one form or another

the dc dvd's/ videos offer the best starting point until you can go on a course. you mention little about sharpening, but that you will know is
a really steep and slippery slope.

as for edge jointing, maybe the simplest answer is to make a long edging board the length of your shelves, that would ensure that you were working
more easily, and you could even use the cambered blade idea but still get flat surfaces.

the matched board idea is of course useful which is putting two or more
boards together to plane their edges, that gives you wider support, and balances the plane at nearer right angles. i have the veritas edge fence as well as the plane you mention, but i think you will find the edge fence a more adaptable item.

congrats to dad for the contribution, ( so what does he want? :twisted: )

paul :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

Shawn - welcome to the forum.........and the slope :shock: :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

My planing skills are crude and I'm not very good at getting the edge of a board straight and true. I seem to roll the plane along the length of a board (as in airplane roll) so it takes on a warped edge from one end to the other. I'm getting better but not brilliant and, considering how much jointing I'll need to do on this project, I got to thinking.

Hi Wylie,

One of the traditional ways of planing boards which are to be jointed is to plane the two edges together. If you plane them separately and the angles of the edges in relation to the face side are different on both boards, they are never going to go together true. However, if you plane them together, even if the edge is not at 90 degrees to the side, any error will cancel itself out when you put the edges together.

Provided the boards are not too thick (say 3/4") and you use a plane with a wide enough blade (preferably 2 3/8" like you would have on a #7) and hone the blade so that it is straight, I would give this method a go. It's also helpful to use the fingers of your left hand as a fence to keep the plane from rolling around on the edges of the boards. It's the method I use and I get successful results 100% of the time.

Hope this is of some help :wink:

Paul

 

[Wylie2112]

Wow, so many good tips and ideas. I knew I'd come to the right place!

I know getting time with a proper craftsman to learn the skills is key but I haven't found that locally and my work schedule makes it hard to take a regular course. I've been convinced to pick up DC's DVD on planing. Seeing it done is what I need, more than reading it in a book.

It also sounds like a No. 7 is a pretty key tool to have in the kit. Kind of outstrips the current budget for a new one, though. Any tips on places to find a good second hand one?

Alf, point taken about the shoulder plane. As for saws, I've got a double-edged japanese saw that seems to do everything I've needed so far (including cutting dovetails). Am I missing something there? Are specific tenon and dovetail saws that much better for the job?

Paul, Thanks for the tip on jointing. Seems obvious once it's pointed out but probably wouldn't have occurred to me (hence needing some proper tuition).

On shoulder planes, which type/make would you guys recommend?

Cheers,
Shawn

 

[Colin C]

Hi Shawn

Welcome to the forum

For a start where are you as this will help with telling you the best place

Ebay can be a good start as I just got a #7 for £45 with Postage ( Old Stanley) but the can go up to £60-70 + some times but if you are in the US, I have seen them go for about $45- $60.

I hope this helps

 

[engineer one]

if you have time go for second hand planes of makes you know
if not think about veritas/ln/ or clifton for your needs.

whilst you will need to sharpen and maybe flatten all, the time on these
brands will be reduced.

see if you can find somewhere local that sells secondhand, you never know what people cannot get on with.

paul :wink:

 

[Wylie2112]

if you have time go for second hand planes of makes you know
if not think about veritas/ln/ or clifton for your needs.

whilst you will need to sharpen and maybe flatten all, the time on these
brands will be reduced.

see if you can find somewhere local that sells secondhand, you never know what people cannot get on with.

paul :wink:

Guys,

Thanks loads for the suggestions. Finally decided to go with a set of butt chisels from the Garrett Wade catalog: here

AND, the many suggestions here have necessitated a couple of other acquisitions:

1. I also decided to buy myself the Veritas edge trimming plane simply because I like the look of it and the idea of what it does. May not use it a lot but I think it will make a real difference when I do.

2. I'm going to pick up the DC video on hand planing techniques

3. I'm going to look around for a second hand No 7 jointer plane. Not sure how I've lived without such a mammoth piece of steel for so long!!

Thanks loads for all the tips and ideas. Every one of them's been good and helped to solidify some thinking (but best not to think TOO much when getting out the wallet for tools!)

On one other point, does anyone have any experiene with the Lie-Nielsen Side Rabbet Plane set? I'm not even sure what they're really for but they look great. They'd be good for the mantelpiece even if I couldn't figure out how to use them!

Paul,
Good points. I'm in Farnham and, now that you mention it, there's a great second hand dealer that comes to the monthly market in town. He's the one I got my Record 50 from and I spent nearly an hour standing in front of his stall. And I'm not even a tool-hound!! Will check with him and see what he has/can lay his hand on.

Thanks again, gang. Your help and expertise is much appreciated!

Shawn

 

[bugbear]

Hello, gang!

Short-term lurker here hoping to ask for a bit of advice and help with a problem my Dad has created for me. :ho2 Dad has said he'll contribute $100 to any new tool I want to buy. So, the question is, what next?

Where do you live - it effects our advice as to brands and sources.

BugBear

 

[Alf]

3. I'm going to look around for a second hand No 7 jointer plane. Not sure how I've lived without such a mammoth piece of steel for so long!!

Old Tool Dealers - read the disclaimer down the side of the page!

On one other point, does anyone have any experiene with the Lie-Nielsen Side Rabbet Plane set? I'm not even sure what they're really for but they look great.

They are used to widen the sides of housings, trenches, grooves etc. Bit like the edge trimming plane in that the sole is on the side (if you see what I mean). As it happens I recently discovered the Stanley #79 side rebate has the edge over the LNs in that it can get into a slightly narrower space. Probably not a problem for most users but for some reason I so often find myself at the smallest end of the woodworking scale it actually makes a difference.

Cheers, Alf