Cyclones - Here we go again!

[nickson71]

Hi all

sorry about this but I'm going to start the cyclone discussion again
I'm going to be building my workshop this weekend and I now thinking about a proper dust extractor. I got a record chip collector for the P/T and a small hover for everything else ... let just say these don't work to well when routing, sanding etc

I've only a couple of questions

I'm going to build at somepoint a Pentz design cyclone I know a few other people have done this. What I want to know is where to get the impeller, motor or air filters, or have others just just used a blower from another source rather than building their own.

Thanks

Ian

 

[Scrit]

There a number of companies in the Frozen North who manufacture aerofoil fans of the type espoused by Bill Pentz, including one on Trafford Park in Manchester. You'll need to look under "Fan & Blower Manufacturers & Suppliers" in Yellow Pages and tell them what you want (air flow, SP loss, power, material being handled, etc). One company I've had some dealings with a few years back is:

Northern Fan Supplies
Unit E1
Longford Trading Estate
Thomas Steet
Stretford
Manchester
M32 0JT

Tel: 0161 864 1777

Another one from my Rolodex is:

AIR-MACH
255, Monton Rd
Manchester
Lancashire
M30 9PS

Tel: 0161 788 7465

Though I can't recall having boufght from them....

Hope that's a start

Scrit

 

[Barry Burgess]

If you are looking for the 14" Jet impellor you are waisting your time - it was only produced for the American market. What I did was buy a 3HP dust extractor and used the motor and impellor for the cyclone ( got is used on Ebay)
The filters are £115 +vat if they will sell them to you as most only deal with business. They cost only $68 in the States but the shipping is £140 for two filters. Truck airfilters do not extract out the fine dust .5 micron. I have been trying to find somebody that buys filters from Donaldson but with no luck so far.
I have built a baffle as mentioned in the Bill Pentz site and that does a good job in reducing the noise from the implellor

 

[nickson71]

Just been looking on ebay and would this do for a filter

LINK

this seller also has another type of filter

Ian

 

[Barry Burgess]

Ian they look good - have called them to find out the micron size - the Donaldson torit might be the better filter. They promised to call back by tomorrow at the latest. They are 45minutes drive from me so I will go and see them if they do not call
Thanks
Barry

 

[engineer one]

know it seems silly, but how about finding a broken dyson, and using the parts from there????????

many people i know have junked their dyson because it does not work
as they wanted. might be worth trying to use the bits if you can get one.

paul :wink:

 

[Barry Burgess]

Paul for a 3HP motor you need between 30 to 45 square meters of filter so that the airflow is not restricted to the motor . I don't think a Dyson will come close. You have a impellor with a 14" diameter turning at 2850 RPM

 

[engineer one]

ok barry i understand, but i was thinking about the cyclones inside
the dyson as much as the filters.
since the cyclonic bit of the dyson is designed and made to a specification
it will allow the swirl and so on that one needs, maybe then you can add
a different kind of hepa filter or other.

every design i have seen in the american magazines requires someone
to construct a cyclone, and all i was thinking is that the collector in
the dyson has some value.

as i understand it, the cyclone is used to separate the fine dust from the chippings, and then you could have a filter before the air exhausts.
lots of the shop built ones i have seen use dustbins for ultimate collection, and then bags to transport the shavings/dust etc.

anyway, always happy to learn more, and offer more outside the box thinking.

paul :wink:

 

[Barry Burgess]

Paul the filter has to handle the flow rate of all the air sucked out of the pipes and prevent the fine dust in the air from blowing it back into the workshop. The cyclone separates the chips and large dust particles. The dyson or 10 dyson filters would cause the motor to burnout I would suggest. I impact of restricted airflow can be seen using a clamp meter. I would love to come up with a lateral thinking approach but you have to filter all the air - not just some

 

[norman]

Hi All

Had the same idea about the Dyson. Found that the cyclone bit was a bag of bits which I found unable to use/addapt.
However The Bosch Extraxx 17
Has a useable cyclone as a unit with own in and out ports which lend themselves to fitting to something else. Best sanding extracteter I have ever used. long use and no dust.

Norman

 

[Bean]

engineer

since the cyclonic bit of the dyson is designed and made to a specification
it will allow the swirl and so on that one needs,

There is a slight problem with scale here, did you not notice

offer more outside the box thinking

Can I suggest you get back in the box :wink:

 

[Barry Burgess]

Ian
I have spoken to them and the filter people say it filters to .5micro so that idea for MDF fine dust. The square meterage is correct so for my 3HP motor I am ordering 2 of the Donaldson P18116. I have gone for two so that there is no impedance on the flow and it will require less cleaning of the filter.
I chose the Donaldson as it is smaller dimensions than the AAF. Both have the same properties with the AAF being 1m2 bigger.
Hope this helps
Barry

 

[Scrit]

To get reasonable dust extraction on even a small scale at the machine (assuming something like a saw bench or 12in planer) you'll need to move a minimum of 800 cubic feet/min (c. 1360 cubic metres/hr) of air. Methinks 'tis a little beyond a Dyson...... I have tried a Dyson on a portable 80mm planer. They fill-up in next to no time at all (about 5 to 6 minutes. :roll: Now where's the box? :lol:

Scrit

 

[Barry Burgess]

Scrit
I built two mini cyclones, one using the dual cyclone used in the Dyson and the other a simple cyclone. Both were attached to vacuum cleaners. Most of the dust (98%) was filtered by the cyclones into the dust bucket while same fine dust from the simple cyclone ended up in the vacuum.
The dual cyclone collect more fine dust in bottle at the bottom of the inner chamber. The dyson attached to the systems was the worst performer as it is only 1200 or 1400W. I bought a cheapie 2000W bought on Ebay for £30 which was by far the best.
I concluded the higher the wattage the better the airflow.

 

[Scrit]

Yes Barry, but what were you extracting? MDF is very different to shavings and requires a very different approach.

Scrit

 

[Barry Burgess]

Scrit
MDF is no problem from a TS or router
Shaving from a thicknesser also works - the bottom of the cyclone is attached to a 65L drum. I have not connected to a planer

 

[engineer one]

climbing out of the box for a short sortie :lol: :lol:

i did not and do not recommend using the dyson motor
etc, i just wondered about the shape of the cyclonic
facility etc.

since so many people have tried and failed, then i shall
climb back into the box with lubie lou ( being old enough)
and play with other things.

but what i did not recognise barry is where are your filters
in the flow????

paul :wink: :twisted:

 

[Barry Burgess]

but what i did not recognise barry is where are your filters in the flow????
paul :wink: :twisted:

At the end of the process handling the 800/1600 cubic feet per minute. Would Mr Dyson be happy with that flow rate???