Cutting Tufnol

[custard]

I want to cut some sheet Tufnol, it's fairly thin stuff, ranging from 1mm up to 4mm, and I'm pretty sure it's one of the paper based Tufnels rather than a fabric based version.

Is this okay with TC woodworking tooling or will it knacker my saw?

Thanks

 

[bugbear]

I want to cut some sheet Tufnol, it's fairly thin stuff, ranging from 1mm up to 4mm, and I'm pretty sure it's one of the paper based Tufnels rather than a fabric based version.

Is this okay with TC woodworking tooling or will it knacker my saw?

Thanks

I don't about powered saws, but I've cut very thick (circa 10 mm) tufnol on my Nobex Champion with no trouble (apart from the smell...) at all. Quite soft stuff, actually.

So I think you'll be OK.

BugBear

 

[worn thumbs]

If its one of the phenolic/paper types you will probably be OK and at such minimal thickness I would imagine your biggest challenge will be finding a sufficiently fine saw.A false table would probably be a good idea when sawing to minimise chipping.If you have the dubious pleasure of machining the 10G40 variety you will soon knacker the tooling,its the worst stuff I have ever machined and I have machined glass and carbon laminates.

 

[Lons]

Hey Custard, what the other guys said. It's just paper or fabric coated with resin and generally pretty soft. Is it "Tufnol" or a generic brand and if so any idea whether "whale", "carp" etc? If you go on to the Tufnol website there should be plenty of advice available to download.

For the thin stuff you will definitely need a sub base or it will flex and chip and ideally 60 tooth blade on a tablesaw. I used to use a couple of strips of D/S tape on 6mm mdf which worked well though I don't remember cutting anything thinner than 2mm.

Bob

 

[custard]

Okay, I'll give it a go. It doesn't matter if it's slightly ragged (it's for a long overdue set of shims to raise the height of a Domino instead of using bits of off-cuts), but I didn't want it melting or chipping teeth. Thanks.

 

[Rorschach]

It's pretty easy to cut, it's a bit rough on HSS tools, not sure of TCT tools.

 

[CHJ]

.... it's one of the paper based Tufnels rather than a fabric based version.

SRBP is normally referred to as Paxolin, Tufnol is SRBF. But both are propriety names and get used as a generic description much as vacuum cleaners are called Hoovers and are often listed incorrectly in relation to actual composition in advertising.

We always used to machine it with normal HSS tooling with no problems, as already mentioned be very wary of Paxolin delaminating at the edges and splintering off in flakes, it's quite brittle. TCT tooling may not be sharp enough for fine cutting unless intended for Aluminium etc.

 

[yetloh]

Okay, I'll give it a go. It doesn't matter if it's slightly ragged (it's for a long overdue set of shims to raise the height of a Domino instead of using bits of off-cuts), but I didn't want it melting or chipping teeth. Thanks.

What a good idea. Do I assume from this that you much prefer to use your Domino on its base? I certiainly do. I've done a lot of very tricky jointing of curved components and found it much better to use the base on shims and ramps adjusted with wedges to exactly the required angle. I find it much easier to get that combination of really precise angles and stability using these techniques - I almoot never use the adjustable fence.

Jim

 

[custard]

Do I assume from this that you much prefer to use your Domino on its base?

If at all possible, yes. I guess Festool might have come to the same conclusion between launching the 500 and the 700, as the body of the 700 is now in line with the sole so it facilitates this approach even more. And to hit the right mark I'll then either shim up the Domino or shim up the workpiece.

Instead of using odd bits of scrap I've long thought a logical set of shims would be a good idea. Large enough so they stick out beyond the sole sides of the Domino (as a visual check that the shim is actually in place), with the thickness clearly marked in indelible pen, configurable in 0.5mm increments, and maybe with different materials for different thicknesses (say aluminium, brass, tufnol, MDF) so there's less chance of a mistake when you need two or more identical composite packs of shims to support the workpiece.

 

[Lons]

.... it's one of the paper based Tufnels rather than a fabric based version.

SRBP is normally referred to as Paxolin, Tufnol is SRBF. But both are propriety names and get used as a generic description much as vacuum cleaners are called Hoovers and are often listed incorrectly in relation to actual composition in advertising.

I'm pretty sure that isn't accurate Chas or at least wasn't in my experience 25 years ago.

We were main distributors for original Tufnol branded products along with other engineering plastics as well as ICI Perspex, GE Lexan and most other sheet, rod and tube semi finished plastics.

Tufnol Composites produced both paper and fabric e.g. "kite and swan" brands were paper (SRBP) while "carp and whale" were fabric ( SRBF). They had a number of other varieties and when I was in the business they were without question the market leader.

Bob

 

[Lons]

Just had a look on the Tufnol website Chas as my curiosity got the better of me. :lol: The following extracts says it all really.

How Tufnol laminates came about
Tufnol (from the two words, “tough phenol”) was invented by a team employed by George Ellison in the 1920s. Originally called ‘synthetic resin bonded paper’ or SRBP, it was created from layers of high quality kraft paper bonded together under high pressure with phenol formaldehyde resin. It was hard, strong and easily machinable.

The development of Tufnol laminates
Originally used for switchgear, new ideas for its use proliferated and it came to be used for thousands of applications throughout industry replacing metals like cast iron, steel, brass and bronze in the mechanical engineering industry.

During the second world war, the factory in Birmingham was key to producing a multitude of components for the war effort, including in the ‘Bombe’ equipment used at Bletchley Park to help decode messages from the German ‘Enigma’ machine.

Work done by the Tufnol Research and Development team set up in the 1960s has provided the basis for the modern, high performance Tufnol range available today. A new material made from polyimide resin that can survive exposure for long periods to very high temperatures was developed, creating another world-beating grade which effectively pushed out the leading edge of applications for which engineering plastics could be used.

The importance of the properties of the many Tufnol resin materials and laminates has ensured their acceptance in a multitude of demanding applications in the aerospace, marine, mining, railway, electrical, offshore and construction engineering sectors.

(Abridged from “A History of Tufnol” by R. Godwin.)

 

[n0legs]

We used to just score and snap those sort of thicknesses.

 

[CHJ]

OK, I may be quoting from an era of the late 50's early 60's in a research environment where Paxolin was always denoted for maximum insulation and Tufnol (qualified by specification) for load bearing and mechanical strength components on drawings.
It being fully understood that paxolin referred to paper and the word tufnol to mean fabric on the shop floor, manufacturer or trade names were never used, only specifications.

 

[Lons]

OK, I may be quoting from an era of the late 50's early 60's in a research environment where Paxolin was always denoted for maximum insulation and Tufnol (qualified by specification) for load bearing and mechanical strength components on drawings.
It being fully understood that paxolin referred to paper and the word tufnol to mean fabric on the shop floor, manufacturer or trade names were never used, only specifications.

Wasn't trying to be pedantic Chas just that as distributors, we sold to engineering and fabrication companies and when we as a company were asked for SRBP it was always requested as Tufnol. probably because they knew that was the material we stocked and Tufnol did after all apparently invent the process.
As branch manager I needed to know the technical specs but tbh my salesmen knew more about the materials in practice as they were directly involved in the problem solving advice on the shop floor while I was more interested in the bottom line.

I doubt there is much difference between any of the manufacturers apart from quality control, price and availability

cheers
Bob

 

[lurker]

If your stock is very old there is a possibility that there is asbestos in there

From memory this was "viper" and "adder" and other snakes

 

[yetloh]

Do I assume from this that you much prefer to use your Domino on its base?

If at all possible, yes. I guess Festool might have come to the same conclusion between launching the 500 and the 700, as the body of the 700 is now in line with the sole so it facilitates this approach even more. And to hit the right mark I'll then either shim up the Domino or shim up the workpiece.

Instead of using odd bits of scrap I've long thought a logical set of shims would be a good idea. Large enough so they stick out beyond the sole sides of the Domino (as a visual check that the shim is actually in place), with the thickness clearly marked in indelible pen, configurable in 0.5mm increments, and maybe with different materials for different thicknesses (say aluminium, brass, tufnol, MDF) so there's less chance of a mistake when you need two or more identical composite packs of shims to support the workpiece.

Good idea to have a graduated set. Think I might have to do something similar. In a similar vein, I have a set of those precision machined brass discs available from Axminster which can be used in combination to arrive at any total thickness up to about 20mm - invaluable when setting depth stops on pillar drills and routers.

Jim

 

[MattRoberts]

These no good? http://www.axminster.co.uk/broadfix-fla ... ims-506088

 

[Lons]

These no good? http://www.axminster.co.uk/broadfix-fla ... ims-506088

Much cheaper from Toolstation though slightly different price for 100. http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p46640?table=no

Screwfix used to be cheap but now £12.99, again for 100. http://www.screwfix.com/p/broadfix-glaz ... -pcs/33302

I use them for all sorts of things including spreading glue sometimes but many of mine are surplus from fitting windows. ( If you have a word with one of your local PVCu window companies they'll give you some free or sell a selection for peanuts.

But what about these? 50 assorted for £2.86 posted. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100mm-x-28mm- ... SwsFpWSaqP

Bob

 

[Benchwayze]

I stick a part worn blade on my bandsaw to cut tufnol.
It smells as it's hide glue that is used in the laminating. The dust is extremely fine so wear the usual breathing protection. It also machines easily with HSS mills.

I don't reckon it to be soft. The genuine article is very hard, even brittle, and edges will cut fingers.

HTH

John

 

[SammyQ]

Just out of curiosity, is the material used in modern lavatory partitioning and doors a derivitive of Tufnol etc? I have managed to recycle two sheets of it and am thinking about router table tops and gantries for CNC etc. Thickness is about 15mm from memory.

Sam