Customs declarations and brexit

[Noel]

I wasn't referring just to your post, I was referring to the general tone of the entire thread, dominated as it is by remain voters banging on about how terrible life is, how most politicians of the governing party are incompetent, incapable, mentally deficient, corrupt and heaven knows what else, how the country (if not the world) is going down the pan and has declined in the last (however long), and how it's all so UNFAIR!

As to NI, there were two options, given that the EU decided to 'protect its interests'. A customs border down the Irish sea, or a hard border on the island of Ireland. Which is the least worst option? Somehow, I suspect that a hard border would create even more problems than the current solution. So, we are where we are.

Apart from which, it's not down to me to produce solutions - I'm not in government, nor am I a civil servant or adviser to government. My involvement was to cast my vote in a referendum on whether the UK should remain a member of the EU, or leave., I cast my vote for leave, and if I had to again, I wouldn't change my mind, because I think the UK's prospects are better out than in, for reasons discussed so many times over the last five years that I can't be *rsed to repeat them.

Now, Robin - if you've got any other questions or comments, direct them at someone else. In my last comment, I said I wish I hadn't got involved in this thread, and would leave you all to enjoy your misery in peace.

This time, I mean it.

Jason Devlin Tweeted:
" Last night a digger parked in our street, 10 metres from my car and our front door, was petrol bombed & set alight. Our bins stolen from the main road & burnt. We sat up all night worried for the safety of our 2 young kids, one of whom is 5 weeks old. "

Don't worry Jason, "we are where we are.".

Problem is CC, you ain't part of "we", someday you might understand the issues of the last 13 nights of violence, someday you might take a brief glance at the GFA, someday you might understand the hurt and fear. Someday you might have a little compassion, just a smidgeon, a little empathy and understanding. Someday.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I voted out, so Irish people trying to murder Irish people must be my fault? Weird. At least if Ireland reunited my taxes wouldn't have to pay for it all.

 

[selectortone]

I voted out, so Irish people trying to murder Irish people must be my fault? Weird. At least if Ireland reunited my taxes wouldn't have to pay for it all.

I think the problem might be a little more nuanced than that.

 

[MarkDennehy]

I voted out, so Irish people trying to murder Irish people must be my fault? Weird.

Can we just pause for a moment there Phil? You've got a teensy small tiny fact incorrect. Allow me to explain:

They're not Irish people trying to murder Irish people. They are your countrymen, not mine. They live in the UK. They hold British passports. They are British people trying to murder British people within the United Kingdom.

Is this now less weird for you?

 

[MarkDennehy]

BTW, for those thinking or saying "yeah, but they're really the 'ra, so they don't want to be British", I understand that the British press has somewhat dropped the ball here, so just one small point you need to bear in mind here - the people throwing the petrol bombs are not the IRA, they're the other side. The UDF/UDA/UVF unionist terrorists/paramilitaries/whatever noun you're most comfortable with. The ones the First Minister has been meeting with instead of the head of the police service in Northern Ireland. This isn't in dispute by anyone, it's freely being admitted. There's nobody even suggesting this is all an IRA resurgence 23 years after the GFA was signed (literally today, it's the 23rd anniversary).

The point is, they're the ones who want to be British. And they're setting the place on fire.

 

[MarkDennehy]

All of which is very depressing to watch. NI should be celebrating, all their numbers say that they managed to break the pandemic a fortnight ago. They should be having (socially distanced) parties right now. Not this.

 

[Spectric]

They're not Irish people trying to murder Irish people.

Correct me if I am wrong but they all live in Ireland so they must be Irish against Irish, it is just they have different religions. How many people has religion killed over the centuries and for no other reason than one lot prefer this building and the other lot another building because at the end of the day a church is just a building and so it makes the whole thing really absurd.

 

[Jacob]

Correct me if I am wrong but they all live in Ireland so they must be Irish against Irish, it is just they have different religions. How many people has religion killed over the centuries and for no other reason than one lot prefer this building and the other lot another building because at the end of the day a church is just a building and so it makes the whole thing really absurd.

They are "British".
Not much to do with religion thats just a historical detail, it's about nationalism, vested interests and power.

 

[Handyoneill]

I thought a tariff free agreement had been agreed? Funny, as I just had to pay £37 import fees for a gift, (value £60) that I sent to Spain.

Why on earth did you think that ?

The realisation of what UK has done to itself is only beginning to dawn on people.

Boris was telling us all that the Australian system was great. A hammer and chisel holder cost me 40 pounds in duty, processing fees taxes. It fit in an A4 envelope.

As an Irishman living in St Alban's we are all scratching our head wondering when it's going to dawn on people as to what they have signed up to.

 

[Spectric]

This is just another case of polical incompetance and stupidity, with a good touch of empire building and sovereignty. The people in Scotland are Scottish, the people in China are Chinese, the people in France are French, the people in Wales are Welsh so what are the people in Ireland?

It is time we forget the past and our days of the empire, Ireland should be Ireland without the british involvement and not remain something unwanted where it does not belong such as Israel.

 

[Noel]

Correct me if I am wrong but they all live in Ireland so they must be Irish against Irish, it is just they have different religions. How many people has religion killed over the centuries and for no other reason than one lot prefer this building and the other lot another building because at the end of the day a church is just a building and so it makes the whole thing really absurd.

Hold on a minute, or longer, whilst I lift my face from the palms of my hands....

 

[Spectric]

A lot of teething troubles, as long as we give as good as we get it should/might iron itself out one day!

 

[MarkDennehy]

Correct me if I am wrong but they all live in Ireland

They don't. They live in Northern Ireland. Different country.
Ireland is the other country, the one south of the border.
If you live in Northern Ireland, you're a UK citizen, not an Irish citizen. You are British, not Irish.

And look, that is simplfying somewhat and it is legitimately confusing because under the GFA someone who lives in NI can have either a British or an Irish passport and can represent either Ireland or the UK in the Olympics and some other deliberate vagueness was introduced in order to try to bring about an end to the violence of the 70s, 80s and 90s - but legally, they are UK citizens. And more to the point, the violence being carried out today is being carried out by Unionists - ie. the people who want to be UK citizens, who are in favour of the United Kingdom (hence the name Unionist). Extremist unionists, yes, and most unionists are appalled by this and are calling for an end to the violence, but the point I'm trying to make is that the people setting the place on fire identify as British, are in favour of being in the United Kingdom and legally they are British and UK citizens and your countrymen.

 

[Jacob]

This is just another case of polical incompetance and stupidity, with a good touch of empire building and sovereignty. The people in Scotland are Scottish, the people in China are Chinese, the people in France are French, the people in Wales are Welsh so what are the people in Ireland?

It is time we forget the past and our days of the empire, Ireland should be Ireland without the british involvement and not remain something unwanted where it does not belong such as Israel.

You could answer your question if you look into the history of the island of Ireland History of Ireland - Wikipedia

 

[Spectric]

If you live in Northern Ireland, you're a UK citizen, not an Irish citizen. You are British, not Irish.

This is the problem that has one of two solutions, 1) It is accepted as English and therefore troublesome Irish are deported back to Ireland or 2) As it is just a single landmass then call it all Ireland and deport the troublesome English or yes 3) Just deport all troublesome people to some remote island.

 

[Noel]

Don’t they use the Euro in Scotland and Wales instead of the £ ?

 

[Jacob]

This is the problem that has one of two solutions, 1) It is accepted as English and therefore troublesome Irish are deported back to Ireland or 2) As it is just a single landmass then call it all Ireland and deport the troublesome English or yes 3) Just deport all troublesome people to some remote island.

Very good, well done, you have to start somewhere if you want to catch up on history!
n.b. I counted three solutions? Maybe toss a three sided coin?

 

[MarkDennehy]

This is the problem that has one of two solutions, 1) It is accepted as English and therefore troublesome Irish are deported back to Ireland or 2) As it is just a single landmass then call it all Ireland and deport the troublesome English or yes 3) Just deport all troublesome people to some remote island.

1) "back to Ireland" is difficult because the people involved are British, born in the UK, pay tax to the UK, hold British passports, have rights under British law and have never set foot in Ireland. It's a bit hard to go back to a place you've never been to in the first place.

2) They're not English, they're British, in the same way that Scottish people are currently British and Welsh people are British and English people are British; and also, who would deport them? We're talking about the people who form the local government, the police, the local civil service and make up 100% of the local population. Are you suggesting we get the Americans to invade and forcibly dump 1.8 million refugees into Cumbria?

3) Again, who does the deporting and more logistically, which island do they deport them to? I know the current UK home secretary has thoughts on the matter, but to be fair, St.Helena is too small for 1.8 million people.

(Yes, I know you keep saying "just the troublesome ones" but if the americans invade and start deporting people to the middle of the atlantic ocean, you will find that the number of "troublesome" people will rise rather sharply and without much in the way of limiting, that being human nature).

 

[sploo]

Correct me if I am wrong but they all live in Ireland so they must be Irish against Irish, it is just they have different religions.

Because I don't wish physical harm to anyone, I would strongly advise taking a bit of time to look into the geopolitical history of that area, should you ever consider visiting. Otherwise, I have a small feeling the point of view expressed above might just get you into a bit of bother.

 

[Spectric]

So are we actually saying that this is an unsolvable problem that will just carry on infintum along with all the suffering and chaos, surely all the people have the right to a decent happy life.