Customs declarations and brexit

[RobinBHM]

I voted to remain in the EU Robin but being fair I don't think anyone could honestly claim that those situations were caused by Brexit, all existed while the UK was a member of the EU.
OK projections can be made that Brexit will make it worse but they are still projections not fact...yet!

I agree, I wasn't suggesting those things were a result of Brexit.....I should have made that clear.

I was trying to put "flesh on the bone" to the claims that the UK is doing great....it clearly isn't, at least not for many people.

I am guessing Northumberland is a vote Leave area, so you maybe in a minority?

 

[RobinBHM]

. That generation got on and dealt with the situation they were in and we should do the same

Griping on about Brexit

I am sorry but I disagree with this narrative.

It is perfectly acceptable to have a debate, a discussion about a political event that has occurred.

It is also perfectly reasonable to disagree with a political event, it is not the same as simply moaning.

In terms of Brexit the great difficulty is the discourse is so distorted by emotive tribalism and to be frank, outright dishonesty.....that discussions need to continue.

The UKs relationship with EU and the border between NI and GB can't stay as they are.....and it is impossible to move forward until the politicians stop lies and gaslighting and or the public become well informed with facts and evidence.

Sadly there won't be honest discussions for a number of years because the real reason for Brexit was vested self interest of a minority of wealthy people.....and bugger all to do with sovereignty.

 

[RobinBHM]

ht now it's odds on that Britain will collapse long before the EU

UK already has really.....It has thumping great customs border.

It's ironic the UK has an internal Market.....smaller than the UK.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

UK already has really.....It has thumping great customs border.

Not one that the UK government wanted, but one imposed by the political position taken by the EU. Given the stark choice between that and a hard border on the island of Ireland, which would you have chosen?

 

[Jacob]

Not one that the UK government wanted, but one imposed by the political position taken by the EU. Given the stark choice between that and a hard border on the island of Ireland, which would you have chosen?

Nonsense - it was chosen by our government. And they lied blatantly about it, which is the cause of the current upset - as widely forecast.
Also widely forecast is that blame for the failings of brexit will directed at the EU and not at the government, as we see here!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

.......

Sadly there won't be honest discussions for a number of years because the real reason for Brexit was vested self interest of a minority of wealthy people.....and pipper all to do with sovereignty.

Robin, you keep banging on about the dishonesty of others, but this statement is just plain wrong. Go check the various opinion polls taken after the referendum as to why people cast their vote to leave, and sovereignty was the reason for 49% of leave votes. As to vested interests of wealthy people, I seem to recall the CBI, major businesses, the vast majority of the Establishment all bleating on endlessly about how terrible it would be if the UK left. Nissan said it would probably move it's factories to the European mainland in the event of our leaving; now it's investing in it's Sunderland plant.

You're perfectly entitled to believe anything you want to, and to post your opinion - but some of it is not very accurate.

 

[Jacob]

Robin, you keep banging on about the dishonesty of others, but this statement is just plain wrong. Go check the various opinion polls taken after the referendum as to why people cast their vote to leave, and sovereignty was the reason for 49% of leave votes. As to vested interests of wealthy people, I seem to recall the CBI, major businesses, the vast majority of the Establishment all bleating on endlessly about how terrible it would be if the UK left. Nissan said it would probably move it's factories to the European mainland in the event of our leaving; now it's investing in it's Sunderland plant.

You're perfectly entitled to believe anything you want to, and to post your opinion - but some of it is not very accurate.

The campaign was led by a cohort of dubious financial interests including Farage, Banks, all the right wing media and nuttier elements of the right wing. Johnson just clambered on to the wagon for the fun of it - he wasn't bothered either way.

 

[Jonm]

[

I am sorry but I disagree with this narrative.

It is perfectly acceptable to have a debate, a discussion about a political event that has occurred.

It is also perfectly reasonable to disagree with a political event, it is not the same as simply moaning.

In terms of Brexit the great difficulty is the discourse is so distorted by emotive tribalism and to be frank, outright dishonesty.....that discussions need to continue.

The UKs relationship with EU and the border between NI and GB can't stay as they are.....and it is impossible to move forward until the politicians stop lies and gaslighting and or the public become well informed with facts and evidence.

Sadly there won't be honest discussions for a number of years because the real reason for Brexit was vested self interest of a minority of wealthy people.....and pipper all to do with sovereignty.

Of course it is “perfectly acceptable to have a debate, a discussion about a political event that has occurred” and I agree with a lot of what you are saying but not here.

From this post anyone having problems sending goods to the Channel Islands and wanting to know more, should be able to find out the following. The form came from hermes and said that because of Brexit it needed to be filled in. Details of sender and recipient passport numbers were required. People in France have received similar forms not just for the Channel Islands but for the whole of the uk. There are concerns about security and supplying such details to people you do not know. It transpires that the wrong form was sent. Try finding that out from the 20 pages of Brexit discussion.

Let us say you posted a question in this section about a problem with your central heating boiler and programmer not working properly. Someone responded with a comment about the boiler coming from Germany, the programmer from China and you needed another part. Then you got a comment about the increased cost of getting the part because of Brexit and before you know it you have 20 pages of discussion about Brexit and your original question got lost in the morass.

If you want a discussion about Brexit and NI border which is of utmost importance and very valid then start a thread, I might join in.

 

[Chris152]

[

Of course it is “perfectly acceptable to have a debate, a discussion about a political event that has occurred” and I agree with a lot of what you are saying but not here.

From this post anyone having problems sending goods to the Channel Islands and wanting to know more, should be able to find out the following. The form came from hermes and said that because of Brexit it needed to be filled in. Details of sender and recipient passport numbers were required. People in France have received similar forms not just for the Channel Islands but for the whole of the uk. There are concerns about security and supplying such details to people you do not know. It transpires that the wrong form was sent. Try finding that out from the 20 pages of Brexit discussion.

Let us say you posted a question in this section about a problem with your central heating boiler and programmer not working properly. Someone responded with a comment about the boiler coming from Germany, the programmer from China and you needed another part. Then you got a comment about the increased cost of getting the part because of Brexit and before you know it you have 20 pages of discussion about Brexit and your original question got lost in the morass.

If you want a discussion about Brexit and NI border which is of utmost importance and very valid then start a thread, I might join in.

Jacob acknowledge he may have got the wrong form by his third post - from then on, it's just been a discussion on the more general implications of the post title. seems fair enough?

 

[Daniel2]

But, but, but.....
The thread title is Customs declarations and Brexit

 

[D_W]

I never quite understand these posts....if it's of no interest to you, why bother posting to say "it's of no interest to me"

I know this is said in jest - of course the person who "isn't interested" wants someone to know that they're not interested. They're very interested in making sure you know what they are or aren't interested in.

You can sort of cork their bung by saying "i'm interested in letting you know that I'm not interested in what you're interested in".

 

[D_W]

Or is it more polite in England to say "plug their barrel".

 

[sploo]

Robin, you keep banging on about the dishonesty of others, but this statement is just plain wrong. Go check the various opinion polls taken after the referendum as to why people cast their vote to leave, and sovereignty was the reason for 49% of leave votes.

I think the point being made was about the motives behind those who pushed for Brexit in the first place; rather than the reasons why people chose to cast their vote the way they did.

If the 49% who cast a leave vote did so due to sovereignty that's pretty tragic; given they would have voted to get back something we had never lost, and ironically have probably resulted in the UK having less say over "local" international trade matters that affect us.

 

[RobinBHM]

Robin, you keep banging on about the dishonesty of others, but this statement is just plain wrong. Go check the various opinion polls taken after the referendum as to why people cast their vote to leave, and sovereignty was the reason for 49% of leave votes. As to vested interests of wealthy people, I seem to recall the CBI, major businesses, the vast majority of the Establishment all bleating on endlessly about how terrible it would be if the UK left. Nissan said it would probably move it's factories to the European mainland in the event of our leaving; now it's investing in it's Sunderland plant.

You're perfectly entitled to believe anything you want to, and to post your opinion - but some of it is not very accurate.

It is not my opinion, it is truw and backed up with facts and evidence

heres a few examples of brexit claims made that were either simply not true or misleading:

1 "unfettered access between NI and GB" -clearly untrue
2 "get rid of red tape" -well brexit now means: sanitary and phytosanitary controls, transit documents, customs declarations.
3 "tampon tax" -a claim made in Jan that now we have left, we can drop VAT -completely untrue, as there was a vote 5 years ago and many prominment brexiters in the Tory party voted against it
4 "end pulse fishing" -well that was banned years ago in the EU, it did relent for a few boats and is now being banned this year
5: EU have imposed new rules on live bivalve molluscs -wrong, the govt knew about that rule long before the trade deal
6. EU have put unfair rules in place on Irish border -untrue, NI is now in a different regulatory jurisdiction and therefore there must be a border.




sovereignty may have been a reason why people voted for brexit but its a false reason -the UK didnt lose sovereignty as an EU member -it shared it.

and brexit doesnt get back sovereignty -when you trade with other countries, you have to make compromises....and although the UK can in theory now negotiate trade deals, in practice it doesnt have the leverage to do so without considerable compromise -the EU trade deal is a good example. The EU gave away almost nothing, the UK had to capitulate lots.



In regards to vested self interest: there is a significant difference between CBI and major businesses wanting to keep frictionless trade with our biggest trade partner and the personal vested interest of those campaigning for brexit.

I strongly recommend you do some research on the Tufton street network -it is so called because 55 Tufton street is where many right wing libertarian lobby groups, brexit think tanks (so called they are really propaganda groups) have their businesses registered.

It includes or is connected with:

Institute of economic affairs
tax payers alliance
UK2020
Civitas
New Culture Forum
Centre for Brexit policy
Business for Britain
Global Vision
Vote Leave
Global warming policy foundation
The Bruges Group
Initiative for free trade

lots of misinformation spread on the internet, through social media and even on TV can be found to come from these lobby groups / institutes.

https://www.desmog.co.uk/55-tufton-streethttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/...cs-55-tufton-street-westminster-a6866021.htmlhttps://www.desmog.co.uk/2018/11/18...libertarians-and-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-brexit
also have a look at Sarah and Matthew Elliott
https://littlesis.org/oligrapher/35...-power-couple-links-us-libertarians-to-brexit


In regards to Nissan -no it said in event of no deal, Sunderland wouldnt be viable.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

It is not my opinion, it is truw and backed up with facts and evidence

heres a few examples of brexit claims made that were either simply not true or misleading:

1 "unfettered access between NI and GB" -clearly untrue
2 "get rid of red tape" -well brexit now means: sanitary and phytosanitary controls, transit documents, customs declarations.
3 "tampon tax" -a claim made in Jan that now we have left, we can drop VAT -completely untrue, as there was a vote 5 years ago and many prominment brexiters in the Tory party voted against it
4 "end pulse fishing" -well that was banned years ago in the EU, it did relent for a few boats and is now being banned this year
5: EU have imposed new rules on live bivalve molluscs -wrong, the govt knew about that rule long before the trade deal
6. EU have put unfair rules in place on Irish border -untrue, NI is now in a different regulatory jurisdiction and therefore there must be a border.




sovereignty may have been a reason why people voted for brexit but its a false reason -the UK didnt lose sovereignty as an EU member -it shared it.

and brexit doesnt get back sovereignty -when you trade with other countries, you have to make compromises....and although the UK can in theory now negotiate trade deals, in practice it doesnt have the leverage to do so without considerable compromise -the EU trade deal is a good example. The EU gave away almost nothing, the UK had to capitulate lots.



In regards to vested self interest: there is a significant difference between CBI and major businesses wanting to keep frictionless trade with our biggest trade partner and the personal vested interest of those campaigning for brexit.

I strongly recommend you do some research on the Tufton street network -it is so called because 55 Tufton street is where many right wing libertarian lobby groups, brexit think tanks (so called they are really propaganda groups) have their businesses registered.

It includes or is connected with:

Institute of economic affairs
tax payers alliance
UK2020
Civitas
New Culture Forum
Centre for Brexit policy
Business for Britain
Global Vision
Vote Leave
Global warming policy foundation
The Bruges Group
Initiative for free trade

lots of misinformation spread on the internet, through social media and even on TV can be found to come from these lobby groups / institutes.

https://www.desmog.co.uk/55-tufton-streethttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/...cs-55-tufton-street-westminster-a6866021.htmlhttps://www.desmog.co.uk/2018/11/18...libertarians-and-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-brexit
also have a look at Sarah and Matthew Elliott
https://littlesis.org/oligrapher/35...-power-couple-links-us-libertarians-to-brexit


In regards to Nissan -no it said in event of no deal, Sunderland wouldnt be viable.

*sigh*

Fine - whatever.

I genuinely wish I'd never got involved with this thread. It's nowt but a whinger's paradise. I'll leave you all to enjoy your misery.

 

[Jonm]

But, but, but.....
The thread title is Customs declarations and Brexit

Well you could read that as two issues,
1.Customs Declarations in general
2. Brexit.

However if you read the title and the original post it is clear that the subject matter is the implications of Brexit on Customs Forms to the Channel Islands.

 

[RobinBHM]

"i'm interested in letting you know that I'm not interested in what you're interested in".

I think Im getting a migrane

 

[pidgeonpost]

1/ the EU didn't exist until 1993.
2/ it didn't keep the peace, Nato and Uncle Sam did. That's probably why it's not mentioned.

1/ I said that the EU has helped to keep the peace. I would have thought it obvious that it could only contribute to this since its creation.

2/ Are you seriously suggesting that it played no part in maintaining peace within Europe when the effects of not doing so are so obvious and on their doorstep? It simply untrue that it has all been down to the US and NATO. The EU has also contributed to the provision of peace-keeping forces outside its own borders.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

-the UK didnt lose sovereignty as an EU member -it shared it.

The whole point of sovereignty is that it can't be shared - you either have it or you don't. It's akin to being a bit pregnant. Even the liar Heath in one of his more honest moments admitted giving it away.

 

[RobinBHM]

I genuinely wish I'd never got involved with this thread. It's nowt but a whinger's paradise

there is nothing in my post that could be described as "whinging"
it contains facts and evidence....I cant help it if those things are not positive.


you only want hear positive things, great so let me ask you this: what is your positive solution to the Irish border issue.....
(but please note: solutions are only possible by understanding the problem)