crazy not do do some of your basic carpentry?

[Corset]

I have to say we employ on the CIS card quite a few chippies at work on a semi retained basis and they seem to be typically £150 per a day. Mind you we pay petrol etc. It seems to me at present thay are well payed due to the building boom and lack of apprentices coming through as most of ours are in their 40's. When this driezs up they will have to survive on less work so i guess they try and do well in the good days, i'd do the same. It is worth bearing in mind the vehicle cost, public liabilities ins and the fact you are paying for people whom don't honour their agreements.
I have a degree in biotech science and i am an estate agent the way scientists are paid iin this country is a disgrace and builders are very paid in COMPARISON to get a pHD is b****** hard and yet they only get paid 20k or so a disgrace. Next time we complain about badly designed stuff or lack of cures for cancer we should look hard at the pay of the science community compared to doctors and dentists whom just regurgitate books etc. I have a sister whom is a consultant and if she ever comes near to treating me i would run like the wind. Dentists 115k average salary what the hell is that about??
Sorry i think my soapbox may have collasped under my tirade.

 

[andrewm]

Read the quote - he artificially inflated the price to avoid taking the job on, if you want to avoid taking the job on say no thanks and the customer will go somewhere else, if you just want to overcharge that's a different thing.

The gentleman to whom the OP referred said nothing about not wanting the job. Just that he would do it for £1000. If he had had no other work on he might have quoted less but it was £1000 that was required to get him to do it in this instance. That's market forces.

I have never come across anyone who is prepared to quote for a job but not do it for the price quoted.

Andrew

 

[nickson71]

I'm guessing the guy I know who quoted very high for the job to avoid would be quite happy to work a few extra days if the where willing to pay that amount ............ however it's not a quote for extra money is was a quote to avoid the job ........... every one has got a price as previously said

 

[Anonymous]

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[engineer one]

having just had a deck built for a client for a total of 2grand,
that included 3 guys working for 3 days, plus the timber, nails,
dpc and anti weed matting. seems to me that a 24 square metre
deck is not that easy to build PROPERLY

therein lies the rub. in my part of london, chippies get paid between
150 and 200 quid a day, but have to provide their own tools,
on the same sites, painters also get between 150 and 200 quid a day,
but do not have to provide any tools

on the deck my guys (subbies) used 6x2's for the supports spaced at
only 500mm, with decent noggins at the same spacing. the pillars were
properly dug with decent footings, then left to dry properly. the supports
were properly fixed to the wall with metal hangers, we put a dpc between
the wall and the studs, under each 6x2 we put both a weed control mat,
and a dpc strip. finally we put a drainpipe in to take runoff from
the tap down toward the front. all the wood was treated, and where
it neared the wall we put more dpc.

i know a lot of chippies who came back after a weekend of building
decks admitting to forget many of these things, did you???

at 150 quid i doubt that i could swing my friends teddy let alone a cat.

we must honour our craftsmen, and if they are any good pay them
proper wages. grossing 50 grand a year almost does not
make it worth working for yourself after all the overheads,
wastage, and aggro factors are included.

take a proper look at what you were being quoted for, and then
come back and tell us it all.

as hugh laurie in the tv drama "house" says patients always lie.
in my recent experience, customers also do not tell the whole truth.

paul :wink:

 

[tim]

Paul's points are all well made but there is one factor that has been ignored by everyone so far:

Having furniture made, decks added etc etc is not an emergency or necessary purchase; no one is held to ransome at 11pm on a saturday night over the cost of a kitchen (compare that with a burst water pipe etc). If prices seem high then choose someone else.

Next time we complain about badly designed stuff or lack of cures for cancer we should look hard at the pay of the science community compared to doctors and dentists whom just regurgitate books etc. I have a sister whom is a consultant and if she ever comes near to treating me i would run like the wind.

Glad that you've cleared up what my consultant wife does all day - especially the 100 hour weeks she worked as a house officer in paediatrics or the 6 month spell she's just completed in Cancer genetics while also finishing her self funded MSc in Fetal medicine - didn't realise it was just book learning and parrot fashion repetition. :x

BTW I have a BSc Hons in Biology and I'm a fully qualified navigator - neither qualification owes or guarantees me a job.


Cheers

Tim

 

[nickson71]

as mentioned previously I'm past the PhD and I've been working for 4 years since then and there no way I could afford to fund myself (spent some of the money of this hobby) on any other course (looked into it) ......... even if I had to work 100 hrs a week at this level and in this type of job (done 100+ hr weeks before) there is no way I could get the pay that the medical profession get period ...... OK it a hard slog for the medics... 5yrs for a degree is it and then the get the right to add Dr. to the name ..... well to earn that right I had 8 yrs full time (3 different course) plus another 2 year writing a 200+ page book whilst working full time doing some really heavy research


The best I can do it in term of extra cash on my wage is making a bit of furniture for family and friends and maybe a bit of DIY but I'm not trained joiner/cabinate maker/ etc and the people I do this for I know well so most of the time I get them to pay for materials only (if it family that does not always happen).........

If the Science things ends and I couldn't find a job quick I'd retrain either IT which can pay well or as a trade

OK Think this rant is over ......

Ian

 

[Corset]

Not casting critism of people in the medical trade. All i am saying is their is a massive difference between what people what people get paid. This is not always fair. People rarely dispute paying doctors huge wages (not saying this is right or wrong) yet they will quible over a manual service or a perceived service such as estate agency where people feel they can do it better themselves when this is rarely the case. We all work long hours in modern times and i rarely clock less than 70 hours a week, but i run my own business so i guess that is mine own fault.
My point is not directed at individuals but i do feel doctors and dentist are overpaid as a result as massive underfunding in training resulting in shortage of Doctors/ dentist thereby forcing 100 hour weeks forcing high pay, i wil admit i meant this more towards GP. For my sins i have marginally socialists leanings but i have a problem with the way some proffesions have been elevated without questions.
Most of the people i went to university have been forced to leave the science profession due the poor pay and contract conditions. Many were more than capable to become Doctors (grade sufficient etc). I guess i feel this is a Brain drain.
Me, i never said i was a very good at biotechnology which is why i am now estate agent. Then again my 8 years of experience in housing and the knowledge i have of my local areas and the market place is easy to pick up and i am sure we all know a few jokes about Estate agents. In fact i am looking foreward tommorow to see who feels i have ripped them off so they don't pay me again.
I didn't mean to get personal all i was saying is that people always think other professions are easy when they aren't and thereby try to not pay the rate. If a well paid (lets say business man to avoid contention) earning 100k a year bulit his/her own decking it would work out costing 2/3k over a weekend and take valuable time from his/her family. In my business of lettings when you work the figures out for clients houses it rarely works out cheaper for the client to do the work themselves.
Anyway no disrespect to your wife, although my sister should never be let near a scapel, just saying the gap between some professions is increasing. I do wonder how all the proffesions could be improved if we all could spend five years in training. It would cost more but we would appreciate everbody a lot more (thats the hippy in me coming out).

 

[engineer one]

been said before, but maybe we ought to have some kind of certification
and then that way people would know about the standing of craftsmen,
and whether or not they could and should do the job.

it still amazes me how many jobs in the usa need certification before they
can operate, or get insurance, whilst here, anybody can be an estate
agent, carpenter or plumber, or indeed car mechanic and it is difficult
to know of their skills, and no one is prepared to understand the
economics of running a business including paying tax etc.

paul :wink:

 

[nickson71]

certification is in some repects is a good idea ...... it let you know what your getting is of good quality ....... but will it allow you to find a joiner etc to do the jobs you want, with out a long long wait, will it improve the situation here in the uk ......... at the moment I don't think so next weekend I'm fitting doors for a work mate as she and her husband can't find a joiner to do the work and she's offered to pay me the same rate as a trained joiner

There appears to be a shortage of traded/experienced good trades will cerifcation improve this ..........NO but it will remove the cowboys if the gereral pubic is prepared to wait months to get the jobs done.

 

[JFC]

:shock: :?: :shock: Everything else i wanted to say was very rude !

 

[Alf]

...I'm a fully qualified navigator - neither qualification owes or guarantees me a job.

Oh I dunno, Tim. You could sit on someone's dashboard and they could say "Tim, Tim, which way for the...?"

Coat in hand, heading for the door...

Cheers, Alf

 

[Adam]

You could sit on someone's dashboard and they could say "Tim, Tim, which way for the...?" Cheers, Alf

ROTFLMAO. Shall I move that to the jokes section? :lol:

Adam

 

[Kane]

Nothing to do with market forces at all - it's a lie designed to avoid taking on the job - so much simpler to just say you can't take the job on and don't mislead the customer into thinking his 500 quid job is going to cost 1,000 quid.

One man's 500 quid job is another man's 1000 quid job. You take the choice and pay the money. Lying doesn't come in to it. You're missing the point - it's only a 500 quid job if you can get somebody to do it for £500. If you can't then it might cost more.

Of course lieing comes into it - it was an artificially inflated price quoted to avoid getting the job IF YOU DON'T WANT THE WORK SAY YOU DON'T WANT IT - just how hard is it to understand that point? If he didn't want the work in first place what would he have done if the customer had said fine?

 

[Shady]

Interesting thread. Without wishing to dispute the effort and dedication that goes into medical training, it is interesting to look at the salaries for research scientists. Job adverts in my University (which pays better than most, because of its niche position), are offering Phd qualified 'brains the size of planets' a magnificent 20 to 22k pa... Anyone remember this news article?

Karl Gensberg, a post-doctoral researcher who has had short-term contracts at the University of Birmingham, will begin his new career in the summer after completing a plumbing course at Sutton Coldfield College.

"I was chatting to the plumber who came to fit my new boiler," he said. "He remarked that, because I had a PhD, I must be earning lots of money. I had my pay slip on me and when I showed it to him, he said, 'I earn twice that'." Dr Gensberg, 41, has had a 13-year academic career and earns £23,000 a year.

"I expect when I am qualified as a plumber I will at first be earning pretty much what I am now," he added. "But I won't have to figure out how to find funding nor will I have to face a wall of bureaucracy."

His present contract ends in April and Dr Gensberg says the university has emailed him to ask if he would return to the campus to do plumbing work.

41, 13 years of specialist research, and he's on £23k and short term contracts. Meaningful public funded pure research is dying on its feet in this country. That is a crime. That said, making a living with one's hands also deserves proper recognition. As those above observe: gross ain't the same as nett - in any shape or form...

 

[mr]

My sister is one of these brains the size of a car park doctor (phd) types doing biotech research, having graduated roughly 5 / 6 years ago her salary bears no relation to what people are talking about here. Her salary is several times that which the previous poster mentioned and has never been as low as £20 - £22 K even when newly qualified. THat said she has always worked in industry (large multinationals) and is one of the few people if not the only person in the UK doing what she does. Point being that whatever the trade and qualification level the high numbers are available it's all a matter of approach.
Mike

 

[Shady]

THat said she has always worked in industry (large multinationals)

That's my point mate, and why I said 'pure research, publicly funded'.

Privately funded, the sky's the limit - but would we have liked, say, Monsanto, to have the patent on every medical discovery flowing from Watson and Crick's double helix?

 

[mr]

Yes Shady I did note your mention of public research. But then to relate that back to the OP it's similar to a joiner working for the local council as against running his own business. Point being that the rates anyone charges is a by product of the approach they take. Hmm probably not explaining what I mean - but generally agreeing with your point.
Cheers Mike

 

[nickson71]

from my experience even in industry you have to be heading into middle management to get over 30K .............. (note maybe a little dated)

Industry does pay better than academia but even then its still short on other professions

you can get to higher pay levels by going higher and higher with in a company but to do that you need to play the political (sometime back stabbing) game and the higher you get the further away from the sciene you get

Anyhow I'm going to stop here as I'm not this jaded Honest

And I do enjoy my job and sometime I wish it paid a bit more (normal when the bills come in .... Like now gas, electric, road tax, mot, phone all at once)

Ian

 

[StevieB]

My sister is one of these brains the size of a car park doctor (phd) types doing biotech research, having graduated roughly 5 / 6 years ago her salary bears no relation to what people are talking about here. Her salary is several times that which the previous poster mentioned and has never been as low as £20 - £22 K even when newly qualified.

Doesn't want to give me a job does she? :lol:

As a PhD working in Science (Stroke Genetics) and being mid way up the career ladder I can see both sides of this one. Some get paid alot, some do not. Medics get paid more for doing the same research as PhD students or post-docs, scientists don't have the risk of killing a patient on a daily basis. Its swings and roundabouts. Business has always paid more than research, but the downside is a lack of job security and less freedom to study what interests you.

Science is a big area, some of it is worthwhile, some is not. Yes contract work is a problem, but at the risk of offending anyone, if you are good enough there are plenty of opportunities to take the next step up. Science should be considered as much a vocation as a career. Average wages are higher than most sectors, employment opportunities are good and we still have a final salary pension scheme for the most part.

Sure, we dont get paid as much as medics, but then again I spend weekends and nights at home. Life is unfair. If you can get over this fact then science can be quite a good career. If not, take a GEP course and train to be a medic in 4 years, and lord it over us back room boys once you do!

There are plenty of lesser paid jobs out there I would much less rather be doing I can assure you.

Steve.