Could you cope without a Table Saw?

[Clwydianrange]

Interesting topic. I don't have a table saw at the moment but am looking at getting one. The reason being I want to get into making small boxes so I need something that will cut square edges and shamfer them to 45 degrees for jointing purposes. Can this be done on anything else except the table saw.

 

[scgwhite]

Hugely interesting discussion fellas - thanks for your thoughts.

I'm afraid my mind is made up about the TS - although there isn't much physical damage, it has left a mental scar. I'm sure a large, stable machine with a sliding table and proper fences would be a different animal to my little noisy Jet, but I'm not sure I can bring myself to have one in the workshop now.

Current thinking is for sheet work to be done on a track saw - if I need angles on the edges, I'll have to cut these before the main cut is made. Ripping thin strips can be done on my Record BS400, and any edge cleanup can be done with a plane / jointer. Crosscutting will be on a large mitre saw, with anything larger on the track saw.

To the respondent who asked about the mechanics of the injury - I'm still not sure, despite having tried to reconstruct it - with the plug out! I was cutting some mitres into a piece of oak being guided against the fence. The mitres were not full depth, which necessitated the removal of the guard and splitter behind the blade. I was using a push stick with my right hand. Somehow, the workpiece caught and was flung ejected forwards (missing me...) but my index finger on the left hand made contact with the blade. Whether I instinctively tried to catch the workpiece I'll never know, as it happened so quickly. Total operator error, and I feel utterly stupid about it, but these things happen. I've learned a massive personal safety lesson at relatively minor cost - but it could have been so much worse.

 

[Bodgers]

which necessitated the removal of the guard and splitter behind the blade.

I just wouldn't make the cut without a riving knife. Full stop.

Absolute minimum is a riving knife. You don't say what position the fence was in, but maybe that was a contributing factor too...

If you needed a cut that wasn't full depth, you can either make one that is slightly lower than the height of the blade (which is better than nothing) or just find some other way of doing the cut...

Some saws also have spring loaded knives that give you at least partial protection against pinching on the blade on these types of cut.

It would maybe help to have two push sticks with smaller work pieces like this, at least then your left hand wouldn't have strayed as close to the blade.

 

[DennisCA]

A riving knife should not protrude above the blade. That is basically a comandment in my book. I'd cut it down first thing and enjoy my superior riving knife that never needs to be removed again.

 

[OM99]

was the blade tilted away from the fence or towards it? Also was it a crosscut mitre or rip? if it was a crosscut mitre then the stock shouldn't rest against the rip fence.

It also sounds like you rip fence might have been slightly out of parallel with the blade.

Oli

 

[rdesign]

ur accident was because you removed the rising knife. well i'd be 90 percent sure of that and the back teeth caught the wood lifted the back of the piece and threw it at u. 'A kick back' everyone talks about them. The only time I have had it happen me, was working in america in a share space with an out of line fence! pure death trap got a nice c cut on the bottom of the mdf panel I was cutting but no physical damage to me thankfully.

Do a course or get some sort of training from an experienced cabinetmaker because theirs lots of dangers in a woodwork workshop. Planers/ Thicknessers , even the band saw can have a bite ( don't try cut up for scrap a large cylinder shaped piece of wood on a band saw :/... )

regards Richard

 

[Cheshirechappie]

In trade and industrial practice, ANY operation on a tablesaw that involves the removal of the crown guard and riving knife is just outright banned. Any employee doing so is liable to instant dismissal. Any employer allowing or requiring others to do so is liable for prosecution. The reason is because it's fraught with potential dangers.

In a home workshop, things are different because the Health and Safety laws applicable to a work situation don't apply. However, the dangers still exist, and the wise table-saw user will observe good practice and never remove the riving knife or crown guard. Any operation requiring the removal of either is better done another way.

I don't want to bang on about handwork, but there's a lot to be said for developing a bit of basic skill with backsaw and chisel. Stopped mitres can be marked out, the bulk of the waste sawn away with a suitable backsaw, then pared to a nice fit with a sharp chisel. The workpiece can be clamped to a simple paring guide made from a piece of scrap cut off and trimmed at the mitre angle. That might take a minute or two more than on the saw (though if set-up time for the machine is factored in, probably not much more) but the chances of losing a finger are virtually nil.

 

[Tetsuaiga]

I find my bandsaw fine for what I do.

I rarely use sheet products and even when I do the bandsaw manages fine. Whether you need one depends what it is you're making.

 

[John Brown]

On the other hand, could you table without a coping saw?

 

[PAC1]

Whilst a riving knife should always be fitted even when rebating, I am not convinced the lack of a riving knife is the cause of the accident. If cutting the mitre across the grain then it should have been clamped to the fence so that it cannot move forward and put pressure on the side of the blade. If the cut was along the grain then a shaw guard or Suva should be used with a properly fitted and adjusted fence.

 

[AndyT]

Interesting question. I bought a cheap basic tablesaw from Axminster about 20 years ago. Plastic body, 10" blade, noisy brush motor, poor dust extraction. Back then my impression from reading books and magazines was that I needed one, to go with my electric router.
I've used it and been glad of it for some projects, mostly for ripping large boards down to smaller dimensions but like the OP I really don't enjoy using it. Apart from the noise, dust and feeling of danger there is the need to drag it out into the middle of the workshop and tidy everything else away to make enough room either side of it.

I'll hang on to it now as I'm sure I'd need it more if I got rid of it but I would not advise any hobbyist to bother getting one. For sheet goods it's better value to get the timber merchant to make the cuts.

And as a dumping place for tools and bits of wood, which is what it is most of the time, a simple table would be much better!

 

[DennisCA]

The riving knife sounds incorrectly designed if it has to be removed in the first place for a trenching cut. If I had one of those cheaper saws without an overhead guard I would probably remove the crown guard so I could have a riving knife I could use all the time without interference. Then I'd build an overhead guard for it, preferably with built in dust collection.

For cutting a cross grain mitre I would use a sliding table, table saw sled, mitre gauge, or I wouldn't do it at all, this cut shouldn't require push sticks at all really, and it shouldn't touch the fence. The way it's described makes it sound like a very dangerous cut to me. I'd invest in table saw sled here for cuts like these in the future. It's very handy.

A rip cut (along the grain) would be fine along the fence though using two push sticks to hold it down against the fence.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Interesting topic. I don't have a table saw at the moment but am looking at getting one. The reason being I want to get into making small boxes so I need something that will cut square edges and shamfer them to 45 degrees for jointing purposes. Can this be done on anything else except the table saw.

Yup - a mitre guillotine. Well, you do the cut by hand or with a bandsaw or chop saw, then cut the mitres with the guillotine.

I have this one:

I also have a Bosch "site" tablesaw which I find very useful, but all my mitres are done on the guillotine.

 

[JakeS]

Apart from the noise, dust and feeling of danger there is the need to drag it out into the middle of the workshop and tidy everything else away to make enough room either side of it.

...

And as a dumping place for tools and bits of wood, which is what it is most of the time, a simple table would be much better!

So what you're saying is that you shouldn't get a table saw because it'll force you to tidy your workshop...? ;-)

 

[AndyT]

Apart from the noise, dust and feeling of danger there is the need to drag it out into the middle of the workshop and tidy everything else away to make enough room either side of it.

...

And as a dumping place for tools and bits of wood, which is what it is most of the time, a simple table would be much better!

So what you're saying is that you shouldn't get a table saw because it'll force you to tidy your workshop...? ;-)

Guilty as charged!

But there is a serious point there too. If you want to rip a 3m board on a table saw you need 3m + clear space on both the input and the output sides.

If you are ripping it by hand on two trestles, you only need about half as much space.

In a small workshop the only way to get a big space may be to temporarily move things out of their normal places.

 

[Clwydianrange]

Interesting topic. I don't have a table saw at the moment but am looking at getting one. The reason being I want to get into making small boxes so I need something that will cut square edges and shamfer them to 45 degrees for jointing purposes. Can this be done on anything else except the table saw.

Yup - a mitre guillotine. Well, you do the cut by hand or with a bandsaw or chop saw, then cut the mitres with the guillotine.

I have this one:

I also have a Bosch "site" tablesaw which I find very useful, but all my mitres are done on the guillotine.

Thanks for that I'll have a look at one

 

[Ed Bray]

I've got one of them, never failed to cut myself somehow when using it, I'm not joking either, those blades are bloody sharp.

 

[John15]

I use my table saw only now and then. As Andy says, they are extremely noisy and the risk of a serious accident seems too close for comfort. At times I wish I hadn't bought it but got a decent sized bandsaw instead.

John

 

[marcros]

Interesting topic. I don't have a table saw at the moment but am looking at getting one. The reason being I want to get into making small boxes so I need something that will cut square edges and shamfer them to 45 degrees for jointing purposes. Can this be done on anything else except the table saw.

Yup - a mitre guillotine. Well, you do the cut by hand or with a bandsaw or chop saw, then cut the mitres with the guillotine.

I have this one:

I also have a Bosch "site" tablesaw which I find very useful, but all my mitres are done on the guillotine.

Thanks for that I'll have a look at one

How small are the boxes going to be- I bought a Morso machine with a similar idea, but the capacity for a box side was too limited- I ended up selling it on because it just didn't do what I needed it to.

 

[MMUK]

I've never owned a table saw, unless you count a vertical panel saw. I get by with a circular saw quite easily.