Coronavirus

[RogerS]

.... Scarily she also said she thought this would change quickly if the number of patients with severe symptoms increases.

....

Not sure what you mean by this ..is she saying that if a lot of patients come in with severe infection that they then pass it on to others who perhaps like Boris - are not in a serious condition ? Scary thought, if so.

No, as I understood it she was saying her educated guess is they have capacity in hospitals at the moment to look at less severe cases. If the number of severe cases increases they will not have and so triaging will result in resource not being allocated to look at less severe ones. I guess the demand on hospitals will be varied across the country but there were news reports in the last couple of days that London has capacity.

To be clear and to reiterate MikeG's point she is not saying Boris is not in a serious condition - she is just saying the fact he has gone to hospital doesn't necessarily mean that he is.

Many thanks for the clarification. Latest news...I think he may be in a serious condition as he's now on oxygen.

 

[Selwyn]

........Wait for 7 days until after you have no symptoms........

That isn't the official line.

How do you read the official line?

 

[sploo]

i wish sky news would ask the right questions for once. Boris Johnson taken into hospital for precautions/tests has to be questioned. He must be pretty damn poorly to have to go to hospital in the first place as he will know more than anyone how stretched the NHS is at this time. If he isn't having difficulty breathing on the point of needing intervention then he shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital. If that is the case then he is wide open for accusations of favour etc like Prince Charlse got re being tested.
I hope he isn't very poorly but i fear he is.

Much though I'm no fan of Boris I can't argue against senior leaders getting priority treatment. It would be more disruptive to the country to lose a top-tier power figure than "some average bloke".

.... Scarily she also said she thought this would change quickly if the number of patients with severe symptoms increases.

....

.......is she saying that if a lot of patients come in with severe infection that they then pass it on to others who perhaps like Boris - are not in a serious condition ? .......

That can't be the case. Those with the virus can't be given a more severe version of it. All the versions are the same when they enter your body......it's just that people react to it very differently.

Viral load (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_load) - it's been one of the concerns of medical staff; basically being surrounded by Covid patients means you're being exposed to a much higher quantity of the virus, which means your body could be hit harder, and faster, than what would be normal.

That said, I have seen some (plausible) material claiming that it shouldn't/isn't a major factor in medics dying of Covid-19 related symptoms. I don't have the understanding of the field to make any sense of whether that's true.

 

[Droogs]

@Selwyn
Here is the main fact - I have not eaten bread in 3 weeks as there is a SHORTAGE of bread flour on the empty shelves

 

[RobinBHM]

@Selwyn
Here is the main fact - I have not eaten bread in 3 weeks as there is a SHORTAGE of bread flour on the empty shelves

you might be able to order online if you pick the right time -Ive not tried this site during this crisis but I used to buy from them often:

https://www.wessexmill.co.uk/

my favourite is their french bread flour and the cobber

Also I have found its possible to get a Tescos online order if you are try often enough. I think the key is if your order is picked from a customer fulfillment centre, not a shop.

 

[Selwyn]

@Selwyn
Here is the main fact - I have not eaten bread in 3 weeks as there is a SHORTAGE of bread flour on the empty shelves

Yes there is a shortage of some niche products and some products typically bought in smaller quantities have spiked. There is however plenty of wheat in the world and this country. This is different to the scaremongering of a "food shortage" which people have been going ott on.

Are you unable to use any alternatives at all? Is the local bakery shut? Are you unable to eat rice/ cous cous/ potatoes/ quinoa/ cauliflower etc as your carbohydrate alternative?

 

[MikeG.]

.......Latest news...I think he may be in a serious condition as he's now on oxygen.

Apparently not. Downing St are saying it is routine testing. The "on oxygen" story originates on a Russian site.

 

[RogerS]

.......Latest news...I think he may be in a serious condition as he's now on oxygen.

Apparently not. Downing St are saying it is routine testing. The "on oxygen" story originates on a Russian site.

Ooh...I'll tell my wife she's been conned. I'll enjoy that :lol:

 

[MikeG.]

No one has said he isn't on oxygen. The Russians may have this one right, but that's not the official line, and Downing Street are refusing to give out any confidential medical information, quite rightly.

 

[Bodgers]

I suppose, there's a difference between given oxygen and being on a ventilator.

One might be in that "severe" 15-17% category, the other more "critical".

It is a work in progress though, so hopefully being forced to rest, treatment etc. will help.

 

[RogerS]

I suppose, there's a difference between given oxygen and being on a ventilator.

One might be in that "severe" 15-17% category, the other more "critical".

....

There most definitely is. As you say, the former (15%) will be on the ward and taking oxygen either nasally or COPD. The unfortunate 5% will be in ITU on a ventilator. Some may be on for three weeks. This is most definitely NOT 'just the flu'.

 

[RogerS]

I've been ignoring this thread for a bit - all a bit too much, but here's an interesting thing: I think I have/have had the virus.........

Hope you're OK, TN, and I hope it is as mild as you think it is. However, the big lesson from my wife's illness and my illness is that it comes in waves. You think you've got it beaten, and it comes back harder, even after 2 or 3 days of feeling completely well. Just be cautious and observant, and take things really steady. Don't declare victory just yet.

I've been thinking about this and wondering why some folk get revisits until the virus is firmly hit on the head. Here's my theory. I am not a scientist of any description so take what follows as you see fit !

On initial infection, the body uses IgM anti-bodies to fight it. They are, for want of a better word, the storm-troopers. But they are short-lived. The body then brings in the main army ...IgG anti-bodies that are much longer lived etc.

Now, human bodies are all different. So, say, person A has a relatively low-supply of IgM antibodies and is also slow to kick of the production of the right IgG antibodies then, because the IgM are short-lived, it gives the virus a chance to fight back. Hence MikeG's relapse. Some more IgM get produced, virus takes another bashing which knocks it back some more, but those IgG anibodies are still slow to muster. Hence another relapse but not as bad as the first.

No idea if that is what happens but it works for me !

 

[Bodgers]

I've been ignoring this thread for a bit - all a bit too much, but here's an interesting thing: I think I have/have had the virus.........

Hope you're OK, TN, and I hope it is as mild as you think it is. However, the big lesson from my wife's illness and my illness is that it comes in waves. You think you've got it beaten, and it comes back harder, even after 2 or 3 days of feeling completely well. Just be cautious and observant, and take things really steady. Don't declare victory just yet.

I've been thinking about this and wondering why some folk get revisits until the virus is firmly hit on the head. Here's my theory. I am not a scientist of any description so take what follows as you see fit !

On initial infection, the body uses IgM anti-bodies to fight it. They are, for want of a better word, the storm-troopers. But they are short-lived. The body then brings in the main army ...IgG anti-bodies that are much longer lived etc.

Now, human bodies are all different. So, say, person A has a relatively low-supply of IgM antibodies and is also slow to kick of the production of the right IgG antibodies then, because the IgM are short-lived, it gives the virus a chance to fight back. Hence MikeG's relapse. Some more IgM get produced, virus takes another bashing which knocks it back some more, but those IgG anibodies are still slow to muster. Hence another relapse but not as bad as the first.

No idea if that is what happens but it works for me !

The two phases of a COVID-19 infection are explained quite well by a MedCram video on this subject. He talks extensively on how important the initial immune system response is, and how in COVID-19 the virus (in some cases) seems to have an ability to trick the immune system into an initial low grade response, in some cases evading detection, which can setup the patient for a more severe disease days later.

Nature article about the phases:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-020-0530-3

 

[FatmanG]

hi Blackswanwood
I am keeping ok i think mate i hjope you and yours are well especially your sister tell her thanks for answering my question.
I am in the shed most of the daylight hours and loving it. I am building a chest of drawers at the moment my first ones so far so good. I upcycled (i think) a 6'x3' mirror and its in my daughters bedroom
. Im just keeping busy and out of trouble
stay safe mate

 

[beech1948]

Earlier I had moaned and groaned about business issues we were facing. You all may not be interested and if so please let me know and we will desist from putting up any business type messages.

We are currently using homeworking as a way out of the dilemma for both support techs, sales and admin for 62 souls. The principle issue is the number of customers who call me and say their issue is life or death for their business and they need a tech or sales person yesterday. They don't seem to understand that non-essential travel means we will not be travelling. So far we have had to make only 11 visits to client sites with our person in an isolated room with a terminal.

I am spending over £1.6 million in getting our customers linked in via their networks so we can still support them remotely. Its become fascinating how many are stumbling over their network access issues and slowing this move down. Currently 61 of over 300+ customers are signed up. This going to be a much slower process than I hoped. We have discussions with Virgin and BT via video tomorrow to try to work out a pre-specc'd network design for secure A to B connections.....I hope it goes well and comes to a conclusive outcome.

We are offering an almost unbreakable network security of 256 bit encryption which is far above anything they normally use and yet they are hesitating due to security issues with their staff. I will not now send out a tech to an AI problem unless they have committed to use a networked approach.....its getting tense in some customers.

Sales are still plugging away but it looks as though we will have to furlough 10 out of 12 staff. Getting these guys back will be a major headache and threaten our forward business.

No customers have left their service contracts so support staff are possibly safe from disaster. Admin is plugging away with us converting to image scanning and sending these out by email.
All a bit Heath Robinson but seems to be workable.

We are currently in deep deep survival mode and though not exactly struggling we will miss all financial targets for this year and might and its a only a strong might break-even this year.

Who would have conceived that in the period of 6 weeks we could go from being the 5 or 6th richest economy in the world to being economically crucified.

Al

 

[RogerS]

I appreciate the insight, Al, and can only appreciate a little of the pain and technical complexity. I can relate fully though to dealing with customers ! Please keep letting us know.

Fingers crossed it all works out well for you.

 

[doctor Bob]

if you have facebook this made me chuckle. (footballer mickey take)

https://www.facebook.com/8423257659/posts/10157946050447660/

 

[sploo]

if you have facebook this made me chuckle. (footballer mickey take)

https://www.facebook.com/8423257659/posts/10157946050447660/

Well, he's got a point; watching a hospital for 90 minutes would be boring :mrgreen:

 

[Lons]

The risks of picking it up in the supermarket remain overwhelmingly unlikely

Absolute nonsense! The risks are there without question, anywhere you go where there are other people puts you at risk, exactly where do you get your expert information that risk is minimal?
It's not OK to go shopping, it's allowed only as absolutely necessary, as infrequently as possible and on your own to reduce the risk!
The 2 metre distance is a minimum as we are told by real experts that the virus can travel much further and add to that those people in front of you in the store will have handled food and surfaces where the virus can live for a long time! Do I believe the scientists or you? Hmm I'll need to think about that one. :lol:

All I said in response to your original post along similar lines was it was very much safer to either get delivery, now almost impossible or what I did via click and collect in which case I actually came into contact with no one, they just loaded the boot and we disinfected when we got home. It's a no brainer and as I said to you previously "use some commonsense man!"

What I don't like is talk of shooting people in the street and the falsification of the idea food shortages as a major issue (we are now chucking away British milk by the way, and the potato price has collapsed and so has the meat price)- there was no shortage of food despite you getting sand in your knickers about it .

At no time did I get "sand in my knickers" or panicked over food supplies, I criticised the actions of others who did panic buy and caused shortages on the shelves. The only knickers in a twist seems to be yours. :roll:

Yes there is a shortage of some niche products and some products typically bought in smaller quantities have spiked.

Hmmm.... My first proper job was with Rank Hovis McDougall as a rep and the market even then was massive so since when did flour become a niche product? 4 million tonnes in UK p.a. I believe worth about £2bn? No flour of any kind available in any of the main supermarkets near us so your statement that panic buying lasted only a week is laughable.
If you're throwing away potatoes send them to the north east where there's a ready market or better still donate them to those needy people out there rather than waste!

"I told you there wasn't because I work in this industry"

A friend's lad worked in the food industry for 6 weeks during the school holidays, on a pig farm shovelling sh*t all day long which is precisely what you've been doing on this thread. :wink:

 

[Just4Fun]

I see reports that Boris Johnson has been moved to intensive care.