Coronavirus

[MikeG.]

......I'm hoping my wife doesn't die.........

Me too. She's really not well.

 

[Lons]

A couple of sobering things today, the first person that I actually know has died. She was the cousin of my next door neighbour who I met a number of times over the years, in her late seventies she and her husband were both tested positive, he has a few health issues but so far is ok whilst she had no known health problems of any note. She felt better after about a week then suddenly struggled to breath and died within just a few hours.

We have a close family friend of many years who is a doctor in Sunderland, well respected, experienced woman in her 40s and whose opinions I trust implicitly, she sent us all a text today and I've copied it word for word except for the word sh*t and only deleted the names.

Hi Guys
Just want to update you all. I've been in virtual meeting this afternoon with CCG lead. This for Sunderland but prob will apply to areas outside hotspots of London/B'hm etc. Expected peak 12th April, we are climbing fast, the peak will be to around 25th then if we have a handle will start to decline. I've looked at graphs come from Govt with data extrapolated from Italy/Spain/China. It shows dif with proper isolation & not & expected deaths. Why they don't release to media I don't know to make people isolate. It's going to get very serious here! In Northeast we are short by 700 hosp beds with oxygen. Hosps will be turning away elderly pts with chronic diseases to die at home. As soon as they don't need oxygen pts will be discharged home for GP to pick up the pieces or administer palliative care to free up an oxygen bed. Home to die so oxygen can be given to next patient.
They're opening Nightingale hosp in Sunderland. Pts who have been very poorly / ventilated then survive have developed pulmonary fibrosis of lungs. Today 70 pts on Corvid ward in N/castle & 9 died. Sh*t going to hit the fan in next 1.5 weeks. Please tell all family & friends to stay in & be safe - don't take any risks XXX

I have no intention of debating the information she's given us, rather you make up your own minds but she has no agenda apart from trying to keep her friends safe while she knowingly exposes herself and 7 year old son to the virus.

 

[doctor Bob]

......I'm hoping my wife doesn't die.........

Me too. She's really not well.

Hope she makes a full recovery Mike .......... sounds awful.

 

[Rorschach]

Have they announced a Nightingale hospital for Sunderland? I thought it was only London.

 

[sploo]

This is starting to bring back memories of the brexit thread......................

Thank god I have too much work to do trying to save my business, and helping parents to get involved this time around.

I'm hoping my wife doesn't die due to lack of protective equipment, like quite a few other doctors.

Not dismissing your concerns (which are absolutely valid, and I very much hope things stay afloat) but this is - literally - a life and death topic.

My sister is front line NHS, my parents are 87, my wife is a bad asmatic, I'm aware thank you. I to am hoping my family doesn't die, as I'm sure all front line NHS families are hoping. Your wife has my admiration along with all NHS staff, unfortunately this affects everyone. I'm struggling to understand how historical "blaming" saves the day. We need positivity at present, the media is whipping up a frenzy on purpose, now is not the time, do the blame game later.
Just a while back the negative posts, not necessarily on here, about the government asking for help to produce respirators were cringeworthy "impossible" "don't understand time scales" etc yet business with their hands not tied have risen to the challenge spectacularly.

I'm afraid I really am too tired and anxious to see any reason at this point in time to try and blame defects on X. I just want people to get on and do their best, blame can come later as in my opinion it acheives nowt at present.

To answer other questions:
After much haggling, my landlord offered me 25% discount on the next 3 months rent, I was delighed, when he wrote up the new contract he had clawed the money back over the following 9 months, I politely told him he was a ***** and to stick it up his rectum.

My worry is that the medics need kit now, not a discussion afterwards. Besides, I'm sure something else will be found to entertain the public after this, so the papers will lose interest in any follow up after while.

Sounds like your landlord is taking the Micheal though. Hardly supportive, even if he has bills to pay himself.

 

[Lons]

Have they announced a Nightingale hospital for Sunderland? I thought it was only London.

Not confirmed generally though has been reported on local news yesterday however it is happening and I know the location. I've heard there's to be one in Harrogate as well

 

[FatmanG]

Have they announced a Nightingale hospital for Sunderland? I thought it was only London.

there is gong to be one in Harrogate North Yorks, theyve been getting the conference centre ready all this week

 

[doctor Bob]

My worry is that the medics need kit now, not a discussion afterwards. Besides, I'm sure something else will be found to entertain the public after this, so the papers will lose interest in any follow up after while.

Agreed, so what purpose does discussing the privatisation of the NHS through the back door serve at present, will this give your wife kit?

 

[FatmanG]

Have they announced a Nightingale hospital for Sunderland? I thought it was only London.

Not confirmed generally though has been reported on local news yesterday however it is happening and I know the location. I've heard there's to be one in Harrogate as well

your right Lons the conference centre. that message youve just posted has scared me to death.

i got my orders to shield through the post today dated 21st march postie says they are down to delivering only 2 days a week.

 

[sploo]

My worry is that the medics need kit now, not a discussion afterwards. Besides, I'm sure something else will be found to entertain the public after this, so the papers will lose interest in any follow up after while.

Agreed, so what purpose does discussing the privatisation of the NHS through the back door serve at present, will this give your wife kit?

The driver was underfunding.

 

[doctor Bob]

I hope all high risk punters on here come through unscathed (and everyone else)

My business is my pride and joy but family, friends and lives come first.
The reason we mothballed the business was because we couldn't keep people safe, thought of lots of ways but in reality they were not practicable.

Even if the business goes, I can be fairly happy that I run a good business, slowly built over 16 years, not greedy, no debt, creditors paid up to date (31st March). I can probably run for 6 months with no income, so if I go plenty will go before me.
Strange it seems like a challenge buiness wise rather than a disaster.

 

[doctor Bob]

My worry is that the medics need kit now, not a discussion afterwards. Besides, I'm sure something else will be found to entertain the public after this, so the papers will lose interest in any follow up after while.

Agreed, so what purpose does discussing the privatisation of the NHS through the back door serve at present, will this give your wife kit?

The driver was underfunding.

So do you think with more funding they would have bought 20 x more than necessary ventilators, scrubs, masks, etc and stored them?
Even in mock senarios the estimate on ventilators was way under the requirement now.
The papers would have had a field day "4% of NHS budget blown on unused ventilators"

I don't think they would have.
If I'd known they was a pandemic coming in 3 years I wouldn't have bought an Esprit but we are where we are.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

There's only so much dosh to go round the public services. Good cases can be made for more funding for education, environment (flood defences?), defence, welfare, Home Office (more Police on the beat?) an =d pretty well everything else. As is always the case. Raise taxes too high, the economy slows and GDP falls, borrow too much and later generations must pay. There's always debate about how the cake is cut, who gets the biggest slice.

End of the day, under any stripe of government, the budgets for each department are set, and they have to get on with it and deliver the best service they can with what they've got. Everybody would like more, but there isn't more. Never been any different, never will be.

 

[Jake]

The reason we mothballed the business was because we couldn't keep people safe, thought of lots of ways but in reality they were not practicable

From what you've written you've acted admirably at every stage, unlike your short-sighted landlord.

PS, might consider a slight change of name of your current company and registering a new one in your current name. No shame in a bit of phoenixing in this environment if you have to.

 

[sploo]

So do you think with more funding they would have bought 20 x more than necessary ventilators, scrubs, masks, etc and stored them?
Even in mock senarios the estimate on ventilators was way under the requirement now.
The papers would have had a field day "4% of NHS budget blown on unused ventilators"

I don't think they would have.
If I'd known they was a pandemic coming in 3 years I wouldn't have bought an Esprit but we are where we are.

The underfunding is a wider issue than just now, but...

Ventilators no (I've said that... somewhere in this thread). PPE, probably. As in - this slow moving train has been running for months (it's not like we got hit out of nowhere - there was time to get stocks). A UK study on exactly this sort of scenario a few years back raised these issues with regard to the NHS.

Granted, as someone else has pointed out; lack of PPE is likely more about lack of management than funding.

 

[rafezetter]

Ah the liberals reply. How quaint. Behind my current annoyance is some 35 yrs of doing business with the Chinese, most of Asia and the so called West.

Try doing business with a country which does not recognise my right to own my product through patents or copyright. A country which feels it can just copy and use my software for local companies. Yeah been there and tried that. Oddly the only country with the same approach as the West is Japan. Where what they sign up to is what they deliver. You just need to comprehend the rules of the game and the consequences of the desired outcome. China not so much.

China a parasite.....time to look at the facts.

China caused C19 to exist through poor animal welfare and negligence..true
China allowed many chinese to visit with the rest of the world after that for 3 months
China has tried to suppress the knowledge of the existence of C19
China continues to lie and obfuscate to throw the blame elsewhere
Chinas only interest is to prevent China becoming a hated state
China has lied about the size and volume of C19 dead
China yesterday issued a PR notice that Britain had failed its responsibilities through inaction
China has blamed a military US delegation in October for introducing the C19 to China
China has leveraged its manufacturing cost advantages to deskill the West.
China has used the C19 vacuum of attention to seize South China sea gas supplies

So fine you guys who have replied laugh your heads off and try to put down the facts BUT....it will come to pass that the UK Government will be faced with doing business with China on Chinese terms in the near future. I'd like to think they would not but I do know how politicos are so have no expectations.

The low cost argument is now a moot point. Chinese wages had risen quite high, goods are still cheapish but the gap is closing. Chinese manufacture is not all hightech and much that they make could be made here. After all the transport costs alone add significantly to their cost base. A few UK universities have explored this and tried to encourage UK manufacturing to pick up the ability to compete with high tech manufacturing systems but to no avail.

My electronics are made in Poland and Portugal. My critical electronic stuff is made in Stevenage. Cases are from Malaysia. When I have asked about complete UK manufacture the numbers returned have been only 13% more than Poland or Portugal inc transport. I have come to believe that high tech manufacturing would close that gap but who will make the investment needed to get it started. Not a Brit.

Nasty post. Xenophobic and badly informed.
For example, China did not "cause c19 to exist".
The virus existed and exists, very probably in bats. It bridged to man. You might recall that a bat enthusiast died of rabies here a couple of years back.
But, hey, haters gotta hate.

Ok Deadeye - you have attempted to refute the first point made - although all I'm seeing is semantic differences - because "caused it to exist" covers an entire gamut of issues and he clearly didn't mean "they created it" which is all you've clung on to to refute it, but anyway...

now refute the rest, and maybe I'll pay attention....

Otherwise it looks to me like you're saying "pictures or it didn't happen" which in this context is pretty childish. I'd warn you of overreaching if I thought you'd heed it.

 

[rafezetter]

Deadeye wrote:

Nasty post. Xenophobic and badly informed.
For example, China did not "cause c19 to exist".
The virus existed and exists, very probably in bats. It bridged to man. You might recall that a bat enthusiast died of rabies here a couple of years back.
But, hey, haters gotta hate

I agree.

It really is not helpful to go down the blame route. This country has seen far too much ramping up of division and hatred, we do not need more. Trump has been calling it the China virus to incite hatred and deflect from his own failure.

I would say the West should be more fearful of Russia -they have spent years spreading misinformation and lies, causing damage to our democracy and still is.

Misinformation and lies doesn't kill people by tranfer of touch, never has, never will.

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that the hostile cyber actions Russia (and probably others) have been undertaking in recent years has been more damaging to the UK and other democracies than this pandemic which has killed tens of thousands of people, crippled many (most?) small "average joe" businesses like Doctor Bobs worldwide and will propably kick off another recession as the ongoing effects continue?

really.

I avoid the papers largely because it's depressing stuff, but even I know your statement doesn't hold any water when compared to our current reality.

Far as Trump is concerned - well Covid 19 DID come from China, the first cases were there, and as Lons said above about thier wet markets which is completely true.

Humans have known for a long time that many animals carry diseases, and we've just been lucky only a few have made a cross species jump, but all it takes is the right conditions.

and China DID try to suppress the information of it's existance it right up to the point they couldn't anymore.

I can't say for certain, but I would imagine (I hope) that those people in the right places have probably been checking to see if local bat populations in other countries are also carriers.

if it proves that bats in other countries are also carriers then your point of "not blaming China" is fair, but until such time, no-one can refute China is holding the smoking gun.

and you'd find it hard to refute that so much of the "anti China" feeling is created by the actions of the Chinese Govt and corporations.

Saying "we shouldn't hate on China" is like trying to suggest people shouldn't be angry at a proven serial killer. Facts is facts mate. Simple as.

Edit: two words came to me while making a coffee - "Tiananmen Square" (had to google the spelling admittedly)
*mic drop*

 

[Jake]

So do you think with more funding they would have bought 20 x more than necessary ventilators, scrubs, masks, etc and stored them?
Even in mock senarios the estimate on ventilators was way under the requirement now.
The papers would have had a field day "4% of NHS budget blown on unused ventilators"

I don't think they would have.
If I'd known they was a pandemic coming in 3 years I wouldn't have bought an Esprit but we are where we are.

I agree with all of that. We could've been better prepared, maybe we should have been, we hopefully will be next time there is a next time, but then again many of things are date coded and so on.

However, that's precisely why I am angry they wasted 6 weeks at least pursuing a flawed policy which would have been revealed as unworkable if the underlying modelling had been checked properly in times which were less pressured than now. Valuable weeks lost in not really exerting containment effort, valuable weeks lost in establishing new capabilities for mitigation, then a valuable week or two lost in triggering lock down (saving face by moving slowly). More significantly, going forwards, by all appearances they have not changed their original plan to try to manage within surge capacity, which the modelling says kills 250k, but they are still pretending the death toll is going to be in the low 1000s or 10000s. If you do not criticise a government pursuing a path like that, you fail as badly as a society as if you fail positively to pursue solutions.

 

[sploo]

However, that's precisely why I am angry they wasted 6 weeks at least pursuing a flawed policy which would have been revealed as unworkable if the underlying modelling had been checked properly in times which were less pressured than now. Valuable weeks lost in not really exerting containment effort, valuable weeks lost in establishing new capabilities for mitigation, then a valuable week or two lost in triggering lock down (saving face by moving slowly). More significantly, going forwards, by all appearances they have not changed their original plan to try to manage within surge capacity, which the modelling says kills 250k, but they are still pretending the death toll is going to be in the low 1000s or 10000s. If you do not criticise a government pursuing a path like that, you fail as badly as a society as if you fail positively to pursue solutions.

I'm aware that there are some doctors who are particularly angry about this; though I must admit don't know the background as to why the original policy was herd immunity. As a layman, that route did at least sound plausible, and the only "weasel" stuff was in hiding the u-turn to a lockdown by claiming the science had changed (nothing particularly new in political circles).

I assume then that those "in the know" knew all along that the herd immunity plan wouldn't work (and would be dangerous). If that's the case then from where did the government get that plan in the first place? I assume they must have had some advice to take them in that direction as it doesn't sound like something you'd just come up with off the cuff.

 

[RobinBHM]

Razetter wrote:

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that the hostile cyber actions Russia (and probably others) have been undertaking in recent years has been more damaging to the UK and other democracies than this pandemic which has killed tens of thousands of people, crippled many (most?) small "average joe" businesses like Doctor Bobs worldwide and will propably kick off another recession as the ongoing effects continue?

non sequitur.

I didnt say cyber actions were worse than this pandemic

The Chinese didnt deliberately set out to infect the world. I was comparing the misinformation of China and Russia.

Russia has been working hard to create division in the West and its been successful in the UK.