Consistent rips on panel saw

[grim_d]

Hi all!

I recently got myself a 2.8m sliding panel saw in order to speed up production on my cabinet making.

I'm torn as to the best way to rip sheet material into pieces for door stiles/rails etc.

Previously I used a track saw and I've been able to get perfectly repeatable results without any further edge processing (until paint), the downside is obviously the time it takes per cut.

What's the best approach to doing this on a panel saw to get consistency?

Split sheets in half and use the Rip fence? Rip fence with slider? (I use 22mm MRMDF so throwing whole sheets around is challenging)

Rough strips using the slider then use the rip fence?

Rip them slightly wider than required then plane and thickness? (Seems a long way round)

Appreciate any thoughts!

 

[Sideways]

DIY project this afternoon as it happens : I just ripped a sheet of 22mm down into strips for rails and stiles.
I had the timber merchant rip it into 2 so that I could get it home in the car and half sheets were more than heavy enough for me to lift onto a cutting bench for the tracksaw.
I wouldn't expect any problem with cut quality. 48T 160mm whatever blade on the tracksaw scales up to about 100T 350mm blade for a commercial panel saw so just get one of those. The cut edge should be good enough to go straight to finishing just like the tracksaw.
For rapid, repeated rips, I think you'll be using the rip fence. It would be great to use the slider but by the time you've got the part sheet exactly aligned to the blade and clamped both ends I imagine that will be as slow as using the tracksaw.

 

[Spectric]

When a timber yard I use cuts up sheets on their Altendorf they just set the stops, lay the sheet on the slide mechanism and done, it is so quick how they can size a full sheet down into pieces and much faster than any tracksaw but you need a lot of space.

 

[grim_d]

@Sideways

I'm using a CMT 300mm 96T TCG blade which leaves an excellent finish but it's more about variations in cut quality when manually pushing the material along the fence, slight wobbles etc.

I suppose I have to admit my only additional Infeed and outfeed support currently is a pair of roller stands.

I've seen conflicting opinions on wether or not i should be using the slider in conjunction with the rip fence.

@Spectric

It is fantastic at sizing panels, as it should be I suppose!

 

[Eshmiel]

@Sideways

I'm using a CMT 300mm 96T TCG blade which leaves an excellent finish but it's more about variations in cut quality when manually pushing the material along the fence, slight wobbles etc.

I suppose I have to admit my only additional Infeed and outfeed support currently is a pair of roller stands.

I've seen conflicting opinions on wether or not i should be using the slider in conjunction with the rip fence.

@Spectric

It is fantastic at sizing panels, as it should be I suppose!

I read and see elsewhere that a motorised feeder can do a lot to eliminate the less-than-perfek edge cuts on a TS caused by the variable quality of human hand-pushing. And, as another poster mentions, using the sliding table can have a similar effect as it makes pushing the workpiece through the blade by hand a much smoother experience than pushing it along a fence.

A good quality motorised feeder is an expensive add-on, though.

I have an older model 10" Scheppach TS with a large sliding table - not quite a panel saw but close, as the table and fence can be set to make very accurate cuts. I get the smoothest cuts from using the sliding table. I

t is possible to do so against the fence instead but for this I use side and down-pressure feather boards and a large pushing thingy, so that I can concentrate entirely on pushing the workpiece through the blade and down the fence as smoothly as I can. Even so, we humans are not quite as good as them motors for applying a constant force in a straight line.

It's also important in fence-cutting to have that fence perfectly aligned with the blade and very stable. A blade running without excessive vibration or wobble (excessive meaning "very little indeed") also makes a difference to both the pushing by hand experience and to the final result.

 

[Spectric]

but it's more about variations in cut quality when manually pushing the material along the fence, slight wobbles etc.

I would have thought that the slide should allow very easy movement through the blade, have you checked it has a smooth motion over it's entire travel ?

 

[grim_d]

I read and see elsewhere that a motorised feeder can do a lot to eliminate the less-than-perfek edge cuts on a TS caused by the variable quality of human hand-pushing. And, as another poster mentions, using the sliding table can have a similar effect as it makes pushing the workpiece through the blade by hand a much smoother experience than pushing it along a fence.

A good quality motorised feeder is an expensive add-on, though.

I have an older model 10" Scheppach TS with a large sliding table - not quite a panel saw but close, as the table and fence can be set to make very accurate cuts. I get the smoothest cuts from using the sliding table. I

t is possible to do so against the fence instead but for this I use side and down-pressure feather boards and a large pushing thingy, so that I can concentrate entirely on pushing the workpiece through the blade and down the fence as smoothly as I can. Even so, we humans are not quite as good as them motors for applying a constant force in a straight line.

It's also important in fence-cutting to have that fence perfectly aligned with the blade and very stable. A blade running without excessive vibration or wobble (excessive meaning "very little indeed") also makes a difference to both the pushing by hand experience and to the final result.

It would have to be a pretty narrow feeder, my rail/stile stock tends to be 70mm, I have been thinking of getting a set of the Jessem clearcuts for a table saw however, they work excellently on the router table.

Whether or not they would be able to pull a half a sheet of 22mm MDF against the fence is debatable though.

Blade/fence all set up perfectly.

I would have thought that the slide should allow very easy movement through the blade, have you checked it has a smooth motion over it's entire travel ?

It does, but I still have to rely on the rip fence for repeating the cut, squaring a panel perfectly that is 4+ times longer than it is wide against the crosscut fence seems nigh on impossible

The fancier saws have capability for setting parallel rips up with the slider.

 

[Spectric]

The fancier saws have capability for setting parallel rips up with the slider.

Yes I can see the difference, this is what my local timber yards saw does as they just do the long cut to width and then rotate to cut multiple pieces from this and might be why it has such a large footprint.

 

[grim_d]

Yes I can see the difference, this is what my local timber yards saw does as they just do the long cut to width and then rotate to cut multiple pieces from this and might be why it has such a large footprint.

It's easy enough to get consistency on width with say a 600x2200mm wardrobe carcass side but it does seem to get harder to get the long edges perfectly parallel the thinner it gets with lengths like that.

We are talking tiny amounts, well within tolerance for most, carcassing isn't quite as important but I do want my rail and stile stock to be dead on.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

What make of sliding table saw do you have? In my experience a good machine, such as Altendorf makes doing the job accurately and neatly a breeze. If you want multiple 70mm wide parts from the long edge of a full sheet set the fence to 70mm, pull it back so that the toe of the fence is no mare than the centre point of the blade. Second, set up the sliding table with the cross cut fence in place. That's it. You're ready to go.

Put the full sheet on the sliding table which is pulled back as far as it will go with the narrow end of the sheet tight against the cross cut fence. slide the board left or right to take a skim cut off the long edge if that edge isn't straight. After that it's just a case of pulling the table all the way back, sliding the board up tight to the rip fence and push forward to do the rip cut. Repeat as needed, then use the cross cut fence and length stops on it (or sometimes the rip fence pulled well back but set to a required length) to cut parts to length. The reason to pull the rip fence well back for cross cutting is to prevent the end of the pieces being cut getting trapped between the fence and the spinning blade to eliminate/reduce the chance of kick back.

The only time you're likely to experience a problem is if the rip fence and the cross cut fence on the sliding table are not square to each other: if that's the case some corrective setting up may be required. If you are dealing with smaller parts you will be able to just set the rip fence, get the cross cut fence out of the way and just feed using a combination of hand feeding and a couple of push sticks for the last 300-400mm of any cut. You may also need an out feed table to catch long parts at the end of the saw bench on the right side of the sawblade.

Incidentally, for mixed and varied use of a sliding table saw you won't need a power feeder. Feeders only start to develop a useful role if you're feeding many meters of stuff all of the same section through the machine with the machine with the machine at the same setting for an extended period. Slainte.

 

[grim_d]

@Sgian Dubh

It's an Itech (Sicar) sega300, so far from an altendorf, does seem to cut well and accurate enough after I spent the time setting it up though.

I have tried the method of setting the rip fence to 70mm to use as a stop and pulling it back beyond the centre of the blade. It worked well but still not perfect...I suspect that my lack of infeed and outfeed, as well as experience using a table saw is the limiting factor here.

But that does answer my question about what the best method is, thanks.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

It's an Itech (Sicar) sega300, so far from an altendorf, does seem to cut well and accurate enough after I spent the time setting it up though.

I have tried the method of setting the rip fence to 70mm to use as a stop and pulling it back beyond the centre of the blade. It worked well but still not perfect...I suspect that my lack of infeed and outfeed, as well as experience using a table saw is the limiting factor here.

But that does answer my question about what the best method is, thanks.

Perfectly good saw from what I can see, so I'd say it's just practice and developing skill on your part and getting familiar with the saws idiosyncrasies. I don't know how much experience you have with such saws, but you do come across as not having much: sorry if I've misread you.

I should have mentioned the cross cut fence should be set up at the back of the board being cut when using the sliding table and its fence to push the board through against the rip fence. There are times when it's best to have the fence at the front edge of the table, and others when it should be at the back. Slainte.

 

[grim_d]

Perfectly good saw from what I can see, so I'd say it's just practice and developing skill on your part and getting familiar with the saws idiosyncrasies. I don't know how much experience you have with such saws, but you do come across as not having much: sorry if I've misread you.

I should have mentioned the cross cut fence should be set up at the back of the board being cut when using the sliding table and its fence to push the board through against the rip fence. There are times when it's best to have the fence at the front edge of the table, and others when it should be at the back. Slainte.

No, you are absolutely right, I simply did not have the space for a decent size of table saw until I moved workshops a year ago so I've been doing all my panel work with a ts55 , eventually getting the panel saw in November just gone. My only experience of table saws prior was using a friend's when necessary and not for panel work.

There's very little information out there about the specifics and most efficient way of using a panel saw, could do with finding a book.

I've saw differing options of the crosscut fence being in front or behind the materials, may I ask why you would put it behind when ripping panels?

I'm clamping my material to the slider so it doesn't move either way.

 

[Sideways]

It's great that @Sgian Dubh gave us a method for this.

The point about good technique for using a panel saw is one that strikes a chord with me.

One interesting source I came across is a little bunch of videos made by Felder that shows their machines being used to build some project kits that they sell. An example is a hardwood hot tub made of cut, planed and moulded staves. All the steps to machine up the parts are shown and this includes ripping multiple parts on the panel saw. It's terribly "corporate" but maybe worth a watch.


Another is this video by Sam Blasco on the ripping of solid wood staves.


I like the front support he's attached to the side of the slider, and the use of stops at the front and back edges to line up the stock.

The last of the techniques / accessories that seems like a really good idea for a sliding saw is the "Fritz & Franz" jig (just google it) for holding small pieces on the slider and keeping your fingers well out of the way.

 

[Doug71]

99% of the time I have my cross cut fence at the very front of my slider and push the material against it, it's out of the way there so I don't have to keep moving it to perform other types of cuts..........it's a fine line between efficiency and laziness