Concerns over wood columns supporting beams and floor joists

[Lemgi]

Hello. There's sloping at the rear of a house on the ground floor, where the kitchen is. The sloping carries on to the veranda that apparently was built in the 50s/60s.

There's a crawl space under which I went into to inspect and I noticed the floor beams don't have proper column supports. It looks like the builder put wood in as makeshift columns, surely this would not be considered standard practice?? These are the only column support for the entire kitchen, which is roughly 6.4x3.6 meters in size. There's a bedroom on the first floor directly above the kitchen.

Also, I noticed in the crawl space that one joist sits on a brick wall, and the part it sits on seems to be moving away from the rest of the brick wall. This is exactly where the sloping starts in the kitchen floor and I've noticed a small crack in the skirting in the kitchen exactly over this beam.

Is it worth having a structural engineer assess or would adding brick/concrete columns or jack posts for further support, potentially additional beams and joists as well, be sufficient? Thanks.

 

[Stigmorgan]

I would be cautious and have a survey done, last thing you want is a collapse

 

[joshvegas]

That just looks like a stack of bricks next to a wall. Does the bedroom upstairs also slope?

I would say yes get a structural engineer to have a look. It will be easier to put right the less it has moved and now you have seen it i doubt you will unsee it. And you might aswell do it properly.

 

[Bingy man]

The fact you have posted here to gain advice tells me you are concerned . I’m not an expert in building and structural support but the cracks in conjunction with the sloping etc would suggest to me that they are related. As above 100% get a professional structural engineer and although not cheap - neither is extensive repairs to your house , insurance may not cover it if they can blame it on mine working, other factors that can invalidate your building insurance..

 

[Jacob]

Looks like somebody has put in some temporary props, to take out a dip or something? And never came back to finish the job - not least finding out how to support glass fibre quilt between joists.
You have joists, on "bearers" (beams), on props. It's simple stuff and a competent builder should be able to sort it out, most likely by putting in more and better props - brick columns on slabs, with DPM at the top end, if the ground is not too soft, or even some more bearers, if there's room to move.

 

[Jake]

You need some more air circulation down there too.

 

[niall Y]

Those supports to the floor seem to be an afterthought, possibly after it was noticed that the floor bounced when walked upon. I would replace these with a couple of square brick columns with concrete pad foundations beneath

Where the beam is coming adrift from the wall, I would temporarily support it with a mini Acrow. and then replace the single brick support with a double brick column tied into the rest of the wall, making sure it too, has a firm concrete pad beneath it.

If you have worries about the slope to the floor then it might be worth calling in a surveyor. I assume that when you purchased the place you had a survey done. In which case they should have flagged-up any concerns about the slope to the kitchen floor at that time. Old buildings do settle , though if you believe it is continuing to move it will need to be checked out.

 

[MikeJhn]

insurance may not cover it if they can blame it on mine working, other factors that can invalidate your building insurance..

Fallacy, unless you lied when you applied for the insurance or make a false claim an insurance company can not invalidate your insurance, they took on the risk when they accepted the first premium, you and your insurance company have a contract, neither can back out of that contract without just cause. I worked with the Insurance Ombudsman for many years as a Structural Engineering consultant and expert witness, don't believe the scare mongering and hear say, nine times out of ten you are not told the whole story when a claim is rejected or that a claim can be re-submitted in modified form.

Looking at the incorrect bonding of the wall and lack of toothing I am assuming this is not in the UK, may I hazard a guess at France?

 

[Lemgi]

Fallacy, unless you lied when you applied for the insurance or make a false claim an insurance company can not invalidate your insurance, they took on the risk when they accepted the first premium, you and your insurance company have a contract, neither can back out of that contract without just cause. I worked with the Insurance Ombudsman for many years as a Structural Engineering consultant and expert witness, don't believe the scare mongering and hear say, nine times out of ten you are not told the whole story when a claim is rejected or that a claim can be re-submitted in modified form.

Looking at the incorrect bonding of the wall and lack of toothing I am assuming this is not in the UK, may I hazard a guess at France?

The UK.

 

[MikeJhn]

The UK.

How old is the building, it may be subject to a preservation order and possibly a grant?

 

[Lemgi]

How old is the building, it may be subject to a preservation order and possibly a grant?

Turn of the century. Built around 1905

 

[Spectric]

insurance may not cover it if they can blame it on mine working

I would think that the London clay on which London is built is more likely to have some impact as I don't think that mining was common in London, the nearest to mining would be digging out the underground. It might also have suffered some issues due to the blitz. Either way get an expert in and get things sorted before it gets beyond repair.

 

[MikeJhn]

So just about still Victorian era, is it a terraced property or detached? May be subject to a party wall award and need a specialist "Party Wall Surveyor" and Structural Engineer, looking at the single skin brickwork the gap seems to be dirty, therefore possibly been like it for some time, I also note that below course five there is a double thickness bed with what may be a tile course with strange staining to the two bricks below this, but whatever it is the single skin needs tying back, as Spectric says your next action should be to get some professional advice, note professional advice, not the local builder from the pub down the road.

Also note that the second brick down in the single skin wall has been displaced sideways presumably when a hole was drilled to allow the copper pipe to be placed in position.

 

[Jake]

I also note that below course five there is a double thickness bed with what may be a tile course with strange staining to the two bricks below this,

I had that down as the damp course. Agree with Josh above that the single skin bit looks like it is slapped on the front of the proper returning wall, maybe that's another addition (although the bricks and the damp course don't look dissimilar). It's possible the beam is/was pocketed in the far back wall, maybe that rotted out and someone supported it all badly to make do?

 

[mwinfrance]

I thought France too, having seen lots of similar here.

 

[MikeJhn]

Perhaps it was Napoleonic prisoners of war that built that wall without UK supervision, if you get a chance have a look at the vaults under I warehouse in St Katherines Dock Wapping built by the said prisoners of war, but to very high standard of construction.

 

[Cabinetman]

Perhaps it was Napoleonic prisoners of war that built that wall without UK supervision, if you get a chance have a look at the vaults under I warehouse in St Katherines Dock Wapping built by the said prisoners of war, but to very high standard of construction.

Haha, just a Hundred years out Mike! Unless they were very old POW’s of course.
Ian

 

[MikeJhn]

It seems the era can be stretched to include quite a wide spectrum of dates:

"Strictly speaking, the Victorian era began in 1837 and ended with Queen Victoria's death in 1901, but the period can be stretched to include the years both before and after these dates, roughly from the Napoleonic Wars until the outbreak of World War I in 1914."

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Old.bodger]

Is that a sump in picture 1 ?