Computer or T square

[slemishwoodcrafts]

I have to admit that it took me a while to get my head around sketchup but now that i have i love it.

If like me you arent very arty or such it makes 3d drawings alot easier and these perspective drawings are very easily done

michael

 

[adzeman]

This is a question I am asked at work on a regular basis. As a surveyor I am required to produce drawings (using CAD) and was trained a long time ago in a drawing office using the T square. Prior to working in the drawing office I served an apprenticeship as a Carpenter & Joiner and trained in the use of setting out work using a Rod. As an apprentice I received a drawing from the architect/draughtsman which gave me the concept this was then transferred to a rod, sometimes a plank of would or rolls of detail paper (could be wallpaper but detail paper is cheap) this would be full size and used for setting the machines. Sometimes measurements would be used as given by the draughtsman or site dims/templates would be used. For current projects I always use the Rod because you don't get creep,variances in tapes accumulation in pencil thicknesses etc. In the drawing office I was happy with the T square until along came the computer. Wether I liked it or not I had to learn CAD. I saw loads of fellow workers struggling with it and falling by the wayside. It takes 10 weeks to learn and become proficient to earn a living from it. As a surveyor in this day of emails I have to send information of to various people in the form of drawings and though possible in CAD the recipient at the other end needs the package (which is expensive) I have found that by using a Microsoft product called Visio I can send my drawing on email by transferring it into Word or Excel and most people have these on there computer plus the added benefit of them not being able to alter the information at the other end so protecting my copyright. Training new personal in Visio only takes a few hours. Quite a number of offices have the Visio package but not with the Architectural add on this is essential for scaling etc but can be downloaded off the internet both legal and illegal the legal add on is quite cheap. Why do I have to use CAD over the T square? simply the changes and alterations required in my work. Usually I send a drawing and say how's this the answer being yes but can you turn it round say 90 degrees? or whatever plus I have built up a data base of objects which means I don't have to draw them again.

 

[davegw]

I use Visio all the time at work, but didn't realise it had a "Architects" module.

Still, for me, comes down to what I do this for. I suppose if I was a professional then it would make sense. But I am a hobbyist and don't think I need what CAD would give me over pen and paper (I'm not even sure what that would be).

 

[Mr Ed]

I think it comes down to personal background and as we are all different, we are all likely to have different preferences on the most effective way of working. I think its quite interesting to see how different makers develop their designs in different ways.

I originally trained as an Architect and learnt to draw with a drawing board and pencil throught my time at University. CAD was just getting into the more mainstream when I graduated and for some reason it appealed to me, so I threw myself into it. In the early 90's to be proficient in AutoCAD was quite a marketable commodity in the construction industry and I took as much advantage from that as I could. I now work as a Project Manager in construction and pretty much everything I do uses electronic drawing data. I think its no exaggeration to say that using AutoCAD for me is as important as reading and writing. My brain is so tuned to CAD that it is natural for me to use it for furniture design as well.

I usually sketch by hand in the early stages of design, but as soon as I start to think about detail or dimensions I move to AutoCAD. Its the medium I can work quickest in and I can't imagine developing a design without having it. Not saying this would be right for everyone else, but thats what works for me.

I send my CAD drawings to the publishers when I write articles for F&C for them to convert into the artists impressions you see in the magazine - just makes the process a bit easier for them. Also, if you have access to a plotter (as I do) you can print the drawings full size if you need a workshop drawing or rod to work off.

I feel fairly uncomfortable making something without having drawn it first (either CAD or by hand) probably because I'm so conditioned to drawing all the detail of something before starting, in my work life. On one level, I use the drawing almost as a rehearsal of how the piece will be made so by the time I arrive in the workshop I already have a plan for most of the operations in my head. Probably sounds a bit retentive to the improvisors among you, but thats my approach!

Cheers, Ed.

 

[woodbloke]

I send my CAD drawings to the publishers when I write articles for F&C for them to convert into the artists impressions you see in the magazine - just makes the process a bit easier for them.

I feel fairly uncomfortable making something without having drawn it first (either CAD or by hand) probably because I'm so conditioned to drawing all the detail of something before starting, in my work life. On one level, I use the drawing almost as a rehearsal of how the piece will be made so by the time I arrive in the workshop I already have a plan for most of the operations in my head. Probably sounds a bit retentive to the improvisors among you, but thats my approach!

Cheers, Ed.

Ed - same here except mine are done the old fashioned way. I work in a similar way in that all the details have to be drawn out before I can start work, but even so, making a complex piece is as much and intellectual exercise as a practical one as I always maintain that you need to think your way thru' it as you make it...hence the reason there's no longer a wireless in my 'shop - Rob

 

[OPJ]

I'm starting to really get the hang of SketchUp now and continuously find myself spending more and more time on it!

If I'm being totally honest though, I still find it quicker to draw things out on paper - or even in my head. :wink:

It is a great tool for visualising work and ideas though, I'm sure there are still plenty of shortcuts I'm yet to discover.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well I worked in CAD in the 80s and I now use Sketchup exclusively. It's imperfect, but I'd never go back to paper and pencil - and I was trad trained, to O-level anyway.

The great thing about SU, and any other good design package, is that you can explore options easily and see how a change to one part can affect another.

I'm currently making a cheval mirror. Two curved legs are mitred together. I have no idea how I would draw that on paper, but it is easy in SU and I can get the program to show me what angle to cut the bevel and at what position. I would not be able to begin to design this without a computer, it would be down to trial and error with a mock-up.
S

 

[wizer]

Again, it's horses for courses. If you are a hobbiest, then it's about enjoyment. If you love to use pencil and paper then fab. Personally I enjoy 'mucking about' in sketchup. I sometimes open it and design stuff for the hell of it

 

[Aled Dafis]

In a previous life I worked as a design engineer, using a 3D CAD programme called Autodesk Inventor, and I'm convinced that it's the ultimate in 3D CAD programmes, it's easy to learn, gives good visualisations, and can produce accurate "engineering" drawings of assemblies, parts, etc.

There are two problems however with Inventor, the first being that it costs an arm and a leg (unless you're employed in education, where you can download it for free), the second problem is that it needs a pretty high spec computer to run the programme efficiently. As I'm a teacher, I can get away with the first issue, but as my (low spec) home pc has recently packed up, and that the laptop issued by the school is also crap, I'm stuck.

I have recently downloaded Sketchup, and at the moment I can just about draw a cube with a few shapes cut out of it - I don't have a clue how to give the cube a definite size however - but can get no further. Are there any good books that can point me in the right direction? Or even a website dedicated to teaching Sketchup? As long as I can learn the basics, I hope that I can take it a little further and use it in place of Inventor.

Cheers

Aled

 

[TheTiddles]

CAD is the same as paper and pencil in that it is only an articulation of what's in your head, a complex design is difficult to express in both ways. I use CAD at work all the time (I'm a mechanical engineer), I also use paper and pencils, cardboard etc... However, what I can do which people who are older can't do is go straight from the head into CAD, if you can do that then great, problem is people like to see the paper versions first, so I've been learning to draw!

Aidan

 

[Steve Maskery]

Are there any good books that can point me in the right direction? Or even a website dedicated to teaching Sketchup?

There are lots of online tutorials, check out the Help menu and the Design forum here, DaveR has some good stuff.

Cheers
Steve

 

[OPJ]

I've just started reading Chopra's 'For Dummies' book on SketchUp and it's very well written and presented from what I've read so far.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Have just downloaded it and will have a go tomorrow.
This is one I have not tried so I hope I can get my head round it!

How about making mock ups, and rods?
Do you do this or just risk the design in your chosen timber?

Mike

Mike, before you get too far into playing with SketchUp and certainly before you let it give you any problems, let me help you get it set up for woodworking.

To Colin (CWatters), keep in mind that sketchUp was designed to be a sketching program not a CAD program in the sense of applications such as AutoCad. Text and variable line widths are very low priorities. As you know, though, if Precision is set high enough, one can do perfectly acceptable technical drawings for woodworking projects.

To Aled, take a look at this link. Maybe it will help.

I would never try to convince anyone that is happy using paper and pencil their way is wrong or obsolete. It certainly is a viable way to design projects. That said, Steve made a good point when he talked about the ease in exploring different design options.

The nightstands in the following image took about 20 minutes to draw ( yes, I could rough them out on paper faster but not as acurately) and in about 20 seconds I could tell that the one on the left would require about 15 board feet of cherry while the second one would require about half (7.52 bd ft). They are drawn to scale and could be dimensioned easily enough. That is much faster and more accurate than I could do it with a pencil and paper. I can show the drawing to SWMBO and she can envision the nightstands and pick the one she wants. She can even tell me how she wants it modified if she does and the changes are easily made.

I guess it really depends upon the way you want to work in the shop. To each their own.

If you're building for any client even SWMBO, the more accurately you can communicate your idea to them, the less likely there'll be a problem after you've cut the lumber.

 

[RobertMP]

I started off as a design draghtsman working in ink or pencil on tracing paper (1970's). I resisted CAD for some time as I was so much quicker with paper. For some years I was creating cnc machine programs from my paper drawings. I eventually had to concede that cnc programming from CAD drawing dxf files was easier and slowly learnt AutoCAD. Took a long time to get proficient but I did switch completely and never looked back.

Now I create designs just for me I have stopped using AutoCAD and use sketchup. Again I went through a learning barrier and again know I've done the right thing and won't be going back. As others have said - just do what works best for you.

 

[oddsocks]

Sorry to be a dissenting voice, but I tried sketchup and didn't like it. All of my projects are drawn using TurboCad, an older version which I bought off ebay. I produce a "technical drawing" on A4 paper which includes all the dimensions as well as 2 or 3 views.

Bob

Bob, i have used both and prefer turbocad (like you i got mine on ebay twice - first v6 then v8 ). Gven that turbocad is now at v15 ebay has the v12 and 14 boxed versions at £20-30. A quick check on the turbocad page shows that at least v12.2 can be upgraded to support vista which I now use. V14 also includes sketchup compatibility.

I never have worked out how to do turbocad 3d properly, but I always drew in 2d with plenty of layers so wasnt an issue for me.
Recently I tried sketchup by following the tutorials and do like the ease of 3d. However, when I tried to draw a simple triangular monitor stand to fit on my desk it took me 5 mins to get the basic shape and then 3 hours to tidy it up. The design also needed two sides (to raise the monitor 160mm) and a triangle cut out at the back for the cables so the mistakes started when i tried to trim the vertical timber ends to match the 45 degree angle.

I will persevere with sketchup but may go back and spend more time in turbocad.