Compressor for auto filter cleaning

[Jitter]

Hi everyone, I am looking for some advice for the following-

I am having a Felder RL-160 dust extraction unit installed which has the option included for compressed air automatic cleaning. This option requires an air compressor to be connected allowing the fine dust filters to be automatically and periodically blasted with air to keep from dust buildup without doing it manually.


I have a great lack of knowledge with compressors and find it difficult to find what I need for a reasonable price. The spec requirements most of which are Felders recommended ones and a few extra of my own add up to quite a list for a simple search and many listings do not cover even half of the information to see if what I am looking at is adequate to purchase for the job. I think that this really should not be a difficult task for someone who knows compressors and it may be possible that someone could save me allot of frustration by simplifying my search or even pointing me to one they would recommend for this task.

I will list the specifics below, the air compressor is to have the following requirements-

Minimum pressure 7 bar
Maximum pressure 12 bar
7-8 bar reload pressure
3 quarter inch connector
19mm hose
Air dryer or water separator
Delivery of 20 litres of air per hour
Regulated pressure with adjustment
Single phase 230v

My own added preferred requirements-

As compact as possible.
Silent runner or at least not too loud.
Portable if possible for option of other light duty tasks but not essential.

Thanks for any advice at all.

 

[Lazurus]

I think most of the generic ones meet your spec. but they tend to be noisy. Belt driven are a tad quieter, look at the dental type Bambi is one make they are very quiet. The only mod you would need is the 3/4 hose connector but easy enough to do.

 

[Chrispy]

Can't really help other than to query your spec, 19mm hose infers a large volume demand but 20 litres per hour is minimal, doesn't add up to me

 

[Jitter]

Can't really help other than to query your spec, 19mm hose infers a large volume demand but 20 litres per hour is minimal, doesn't add up to me

I guess it needs high volume for short bursts periodically like maybe once every 20 minutes

 

[Inspector]

The workplace I was in before retiring had half a dozen 5hp, 4 cartridge downdraft tables and a couple downdraft booths totalling twelve, 5hp, 4 cartridge units with compressed air cleaning of the cartridges. When they go off it sounds like a shotgun which can surprise the heck out of you if it is unexpected. Like when it is going off at random intervals during the day when the flow drops off, rather than when you have selected the cleaning cycle yourself at the shift end. Just warning you in case you have office staff or jittery neighbours. That kind of air pulse uses a lot of air and the 3/4" connector points to that to get the flow when the solenoid opens. Most small shop compressors have 1/4" to 1/2" outputs at most. My 5hp, 2 stage, 80 gallon vertical tank compressor can meet those requirements but would spend a fair amount of time running to keep up to the cleaning cycle depending how many filters and the number of pulses per filter in the cleaning cycle. The 20 litre requirement seems off to me too. You sure it isn't 200 litres? A 20 litre pulse would just fill the inside space of one cartridge to push against the incoming airflow. How often does Feldor say it goes off in the cleaning cycle?

Pete

 

[Jitter]

The workplace I was in before retiring had half a dozen 5hp, 4 cartridge downdraft tables and a couple downdraft booths totalling twelve, 5hp, 4 cartridge units with compressed air cleaning of the cartridges. When they go off it sounds like a shotgun which can surprise the heck out of you if it is unexpected. Like when it is going off at random intervals during the day when the flow drops off, rather than when you have selected the cleaning cycle yourself at the shift end. Just warning you in case you have office staff or jittery neighbours. That kind of air pulse uses a lot of air and the 3/4" connector points to that to get the flow when the solenoid opens. Most small shop compressors have 1/4" to 1/2" outputs at most. My 5hp, 2 stage, 80 gallon vertical tank compressor can meet those requirements but would spend a fair amount of time running to keep up to the cleaning cycle depending how many filters and the number of pulses per filter in the cleaning cycle. The 20 litre requirement seems off to me too. You sure it isn't 200 litres? A 20 litre pulse would just fill the inside space of one cartridge to push against the incoming airflow. How often does Feldor say it goes off in the cleaning cycle?

Pete

Thanks, tomorrow I will call Felder and double check the 3/4” connector, the litres per hour required and ask how frequent it is likely to be doing the cleaning cycle. It could be that I have written down incorrectly or misheard the tech guy over the phone so is best I double check this first. I will come back tomorrow morning with the answers when they are open and available.

 

[Jitter]

The workplace I was in before retiring had half a dozen 5hp, 4 cartridge downdraft tables and a couple downdraft booths totalling twelve, 5hp, 4 cartridge units with compressed air cleaning of the cartridges. When they go off it sounds like a shotgun which can surprise the heck out of you if it is unexpected. Like when it is going off at random intervals during the day when the flow drops off, rather than when you have selected the cleaning cycle yourself at the shift end. Just warning you in case you have office staff or jittery neighbours. That kind of air pulse uses a lot of air and the 3/4" connector points to that to get the flow when the solenoid opens. Most small shop compressors have 1/4" to 1/2" outputs at most. My 5hp, 2 stage, 80 gallon vertical tank compressor can meet those requirements but would spend a fair amount of time running to keep up to the cleaning cycle depending how many filters and the number of pulses per filter in the cleaning cycle. The 20 litre requirement seems off to me too. You sure it isn't 200 litres? A 20 litre pulse would just fill the inside space of one cartridge to push against the incoming airflow. How often does Feldor say it goes off in the cleaning cycle?

Pete

Hi Pete. I’ve spoken to Felder tech team. They say to not worry about the 20 litres per hour, it’s just a guide so that the compressor has enough time to refill that amount of air for every cycle which in my case will most likely be set to every 10 minutes. It can be set to every half hour but the kind of dust I’m creating clogs up quickly.

The connection to the extractor is a 3/4” size but on the actual compressor could be anything else really. I guess I’d need to just buy a connector for that to fit to the hose.

The hose has to be 19mm internal diameter so again, it may mean buying the hose separately depending on what one I choose, I’m not sure.

He said it requires dry clean air so oil free and fitted with a moisture separator is good, he said that many come with this as standard fitted already.

The machine has its own regulator so will adjust down to 6 bar pressure itself. The input is to be between minimum of 7 bar and max 12 bar so I guess an 8 bar compressor one would be suffice.

I have spoken to a couple of people who use the rl 160 on the Felder forum. They are in the USA but they are using between 25-50litre tanks, setting around 100psi. One guy is using a 10 gallon California air tools compressor and says I wouldn’t need nearly as much air as that but he runs other things like a wide belt sander and air clamps etc whereas I would not be. I work alone and if using air for another purpose, the extractor will be most likely turned off anyway.

 

[Jameshow]

What does it actually do? Blast the dust back into the atmosphere?!

 

[Jitter]

What does it actually do? Blast the dust back into the atmosphere?!

It blasts the dust off the filter periodically on a timer and the dust drops of into the collection with the rest of the dust. It’s a sealed unit with a manual compression lever to release the dust containers at the bottom.

 

[Inspector]

I didn't think it would work with air volume that low. I sit corrected. I looked at the Donnadson site at the model of downdraft bench we had. It requires 1.5 SCFM/min (42L/min) of airflow at 90 PSI/6.2bar for the self cleaning system.
When you get it do you mind posting pictures of the self cleaning stuff? I'm interested in how it is configured and works.

Jameshow industrial cartridge filters are set up with the air flowing from outside the cartridge to the centre and then out of the machine, the cartridges being enclosed in a chamber unlike the air blown from inside the cartridge in home shop DCs. The pulse of air in the middle of the cartridge blows the dust cake off with with the bigger heavier pieces falling to the catch trays, some of the smaller bits going back to the filter to be knocked off from a later pulse. Eventually the dust cake won't blow off the cartridge and they have to be removed and replaced or sent out to a specialized cleaning facility. They can be cleaned a few times before replacement is needed.

Pete

 

[Jitter]

I didn't think it would work with air volume that low. I sit corrected. I looked at the Donnadson site at the model of downdraft bench we had. It requires 1.5 SCFM/min (42L/min) of airflow at 90 PSI/6.2bar for the self cleaning system.
When you get it do you mind posting pictures of the self cleaning stuff? I'm interested in how it is configured and works.

Jameshow industrial cartridge filters are set up with the air flowing from outside the cartridge to the centre and then out of the machine, the cartridges being enclosed in a chamber unlike the air blown from inside the cartridge in home shop DCs. The pulse of air in the middle of the cartridge blows the dust cake off with with the bigger heavier pieces falling to the catch trays, some of the smaller bits going back to the filter to be knocked off from a later pulse. Eventually the dust cake won't blow off the cartridge and they have to be removed and replaced or sent out to a specialized cleaning facility. They can be cleaned a few times before replacement is needed.

Pete

No problem Pete. The machine arrives first thing tomorrow morning. It will still need connection to mains,(cable ready) ducting (they are coming back soon I hope to do the last few hours work) and the compressor (which I’ve still not decided on make and model). Tomorrow I will be inverting the extraction point to the opposite side of the machine, it’s supposed to be easy to do. I’ll have to probably invert the collection trolly to slide out the opposite side as well, again should just be nuts and bolts. While I’m doing that, I’ll take some footage of the internals and bring them here.

 

[pgrbff]

Air dryer is considerably more expensive than water separator. There are an awful lot of cheap chinese separators on the market, make sure you get a good one.

 

[Jitter]

I didn't think it would work with air volume that low. I sit corrected. I looked at the Donnadson site at the model of downdraft bench we had. It requires 1.5 SCFM/min (42L/min) of airflow at 90 PSI/6.2bar for the self cleaning system.
When you get it do you mind posting pictures of the self cleaning stuff? I'm interested in how it is configured and works.

Jameshow industrial cartridge filters are set up with the air flowing from outside the cartridge to the centre and then out of the machine, the cartridges being enclosed in a chamber unlike the air blown from inside the cartridge in home shop DCs. The pulse of air in the middle of the cartridge blows the dust cake off with with the bigger heavier pieces falling to the catch trays, some of the smaller bits going back to the filter to be knocked off from a later pulse. Eventually the dust cake won't blow off the cartridge and they have to be removed and replaced or sent out to a specialized cleaning facility. They can be cleaned a few times before replacement is needed.

Pete

Hi Pete. It seems I was wrong and the function of the compressor looks like it’s to drive the piston for the brushes for auto clean…not spray air on the filters. Still to read up about it but took some footage after setting the machine up.

It seems like the video footage I took, the server here cannot handle even 1 minute of video which is disappointing so have taken photos of the video.

 

[Jitter]

I didn't think it would work with air volume that low. I sit corrected. I looked at the Donnadson site at the model of downdraft bench we had. It requires 1.5 SCFM/min (42L/min) of airflow at 90 PSI/6.2bar for the self cleaning system.
When you get it do you mind posting pictures of the self cleaning stuff? I'm interested in how it is configured and works.

Jameshow industrial cartridge filters are set up with the air flowing from outside the cartridge to the centre and then out of the machine, the cartridges being enclosed in a chamber unlike the air blown from inside the cartridge in home shop DCs. The pulse of air in the middle of the cartridge blows the dust cake off with with the bigger heavier pieces falling to the catch trays, some of the smaller bits going back to the filter to be knocked off from a later pulse. Eventually the dust cake won't blow off the cartridge and they have to be removed and replaced or sent out to a specialized cleaning facility. They can be cleaned a few times before replacement is needed.

Pete

 

[Inspector]

Thanks. Does the air get drawn into that area, then pulled up through the filters to the impeller and out into the shop?

Pete

 

[Jitter]

Thanks. Does the air get drawn into that area, then pulled up through the filters to the impeller and out into the shop?

Pete

As far as I could see, the air goes into that area with the dust, then gets sucked through the filters into the upper area of the machine (into about the top half of the machine which I cannot see into with the filters in place) where I presume there is a large impeller and a motor at least but maybe more filtration idk, then yes, out into the shop through a vent.